Belmont Derby

[aaron]

How is the Belmont Derby a GR1 race for $1200,000.There are no G1 turf horses in the race.I know they are 3yo,but this races purse is ridiculous.They could have carded 6 decent 200,000 races and had better races. Just my thoughts.

[olddaddy]

Are there any G1 U.S. based grass 3 yr olds?

[aaron]

Originally Posted by olddaddy

Are there any G1 U.S. based grass 3 yr olds?

If there aren't, what is the purpose of this race ?

[cj]

Originally Posted by aaron

If there aren't, what is the purpose of this race ?

You have to start somewhere, no? I mean, we have the BC Juvenile races that are G1s on turf, but otherwise there aren't any more until this one.

If we can have a bunch of Derby preps be G1s the annually produce plenty of duds, I don't see why a race with a huge purse that draws most of the best of the division shouldn't be a G1.

[aaron]

Originally Posted by cj

You have to start somewhere, no? I mean, we have the BC Juvenile races that are G1s on turf, but otherwise there aren't any more until this one.

If we can have a bunch of Derby preps be G1s the annually produce plenty of duds, I don't see why a race with a huge purse that draws most of the best of the division shouldn't be a G1.

Don't you think there should be some Turf preps leading up to a G1 $1200,000 race. In the Derby preps there are horses who at the time of the Derby,we would right or wrong consider G1 types.Seems to me you probably would get the same horses for a lot less in purse.
I guess you are right about starting somewhere. Just seems weird to make a big deal out of this race.

[Tom]

Graded stake don't mean as much as they used to.
Watered down, avoided by most, just no glory in them like there used to be.
Not impressed by many of them anymore, myself. They mean something to breeders, but not much else. It's like hockey, where half of the teams make the playoffs.

The Belmont Derby is not in the top 5 races on the card IMHO.
Just another grass race on a list of far too many grass races.

I'm much more interested in the Arlington turf card.

[Spalding No!]

Originally Posted by aaron

Don't you think there should be some Turf preps leading up to a G1 $1200,000 race. In the Derby preps there are horses who at the time of the Derby,we would right or wrong consider G1 types.Seems to me you probably would get the same horses for a lot less in purse.
I guess you are right about starting somewhere. Just seems weird to make a big deal out of this race.

The Belmont Derby utilizes (1) its position on the calendar and (2) the graded status of its precursor the Jamaica Handicap to support its Grade 1 ranking.

You suggest that there are no preps leading up to the race, but a quick glance of the PPs shows that races like the Dania Beach G3, the Palm Beach G3, the Transylvania G3, the American Turf G2, the Pennine Ridge G3, and the Penn Mile G2 serve as a more than an adequate source of runners for a major championship-style race with a big purse run at a classic distance.

While the race does have some riffraff courtesy of Paul Reddam and Calumet Farm, the rest of the field features several multiple graded stakes winners and a couple of well meant European imports. Hunting Horn ran a solid race in the French Derby, a true classic race. Until his defeat at the hands of dual surface threat Catholic Boy, Analyze It was being compared to the best of past 3yo turf stars. Perhaps he'll rebound here and reconfirm those sentiments.

Last year's Belmont Derby played out in similar fashion as Oscar Performance, who had dominated the juvenile turf division stateside, was coming up short in his early 3yo races before breaking out in this race. He later took down another Grade 1 in the Secretariat.

At any rate, graded status is based on past runnings not the current renewal. The Jamaica Handicap certainly earned its Grade 1 ranking via the exploits of participants such as Subordination, King Cugat, Artie Schiller, Stroll, Showing Up, Nobiz Like Shobiz, Kicken Kris, Red Giant, Gio Ponti, and Court Vision.

In just 4 runnings as the Belmont Derby, the race has had international implications with participants like Pornichet (G1 in Australia), Toast of New York (2nd BC Classic), Gailo Chop (G1 in Australia), Adelaide (G1 Cox Plate, G1 Secretariat), Bobby's Kitten (G1 BC Turf Sprint), Divisidero (G1 Turf Classic 2x), Deauville (placed Arlington Million 2x), Beach Patrol (3 G1s), Good Samaritan (Jim Dandy), and Yoshida (G1).

[aaron]

Originally Posted by Spalding No!

The Belmont Derby utilizes (1) its position on the calendar and (2) the graded status of its precursor the Jamaica Handicap to support its Grade 1 ranking.

You suggest that there are no preps leading up to the race, but a quick glance of the PPs shows that races like the Dania Beach G3, the Palm Beach G3, the Transylvania G3, the American Turf G2, the Pennine Ridge G3, and the Penn Mile G2 serve as a more than an adequate source of runners for a major championship-style race with a big purse run at a classic distance.

While the race does have some riffraff courtesy of Paul Reddam and Calumet Farm, the rest of the field features several multiple graded stakes winners and a couple of well meant European imports. Hunting Horn ran a solid race in the French Derby, a true classic race. Until his defeat at the hands of dual surface threat Catholic Boy, Analyze It was being compared to the best of past 3yo turf stars. Perhaps he'll rebound here and reconfirm those sentiments.

Last year's Belmont Derby played out in similar fashion as Oscar Performance, who had dominated the juvenile turf division stateside, was coming up short in his early 3yo races before breaking out in this race. He later took down another Grade 1 in the Secretariat.

At any rate, graded status is based on past runnings not the current renewal. The Jamaica Handicap certainly earned its Grade 1 ranking via the exploits of participants such as Subordination, King Cugat, Artie Schiller, Stroll, Showing Up, Nobiz Like Shobiz, Kicken Kris, Red Giant, Gio Ponti, and Court Vision.

In just 4 runnings as the Belmont Derby, the race has had international implications with participants like Pornichet (G1 in Australia), Toast of New York (2nd BC Classic), Gailo Chop (G1 in Australia), Adelaide (G1 Cox Plate, G1 Secretariat), Bobby's Kitten (G1 BC Turf Sprint), Divisidero (G1 Turf Classic 2x), Deauville (placed Arlington Million 2x), Beach Patrol (3 G1s), Good Samaritan (Jim Dandy), and Yoshida (G1).

You make good points. I can't argue with anything you said. Thanks for taking the time to respond.

[MonmouthParkJoe]

CJ already pointed it out, you have to start somewhere. And Spalding made some great points as well. With the trend towards turf racing, it makes complete sense.

Stars and Stripes Day has grown since its inception, and honestly it is one of the days I look forward to each year. The Belmont Spring Meet has great racing, and it shouldn't end with Belmont Stakes Day. It is nice way to end the meet on a high note before shifting to Saratoga.

[Andy Asaro]

Lack of pace in the race. Think Catholic Boy will sit just off of Analyze It and go by him again. Think Hunting Horn will give a good account of himself and has a shot to win and the big bomb is Encumbered who should move way up after dueling in last against his natural style.

Good luck.

[Suff]

In the current 3 YO Division, on Turf, the Belmont Derby has the #1 Money winner Hawkish, also #2 Maruad, Analyze #6 and Catholic Boy #8.

So 4 of the top ten earners on Turf are here.

[aaron]

I agree with every point that was made. It just seemed odd to me to have a G1 without any G1 winners in the race. Perhaps one of these horses will become a G1 turf horselike CJ said you have to start somewhere. Spalding pointed to the history of the race and mentioned horses who have gone on to G1. Thanks for answering my question. Race makes somewhat more sense to me now.

[burnsy]

Originally Posted by Tom

Graded stake don't mean as much as they used to.
Watered down, avoided by most, just no glory in them like there used to be.
Not impressed by many of them anymore, myself. They mean something to breeders, but not much else. It's like hockey, where half of the teams make the playoffs.

The Belmont Derby is not in the top 5 races on the card IMHO.
Just another grass race on a list of far too many grass races.

I'm much more interested in the Arlington turf card.

We are from a different generation. your point is well taken. Grade 1, 2 or 3 could be put in front of any of these races and there is no difference except for the money involved. And some of the other races are way better.


I think the idea was to attract better foreign talent and that fell short this year too. I'm kind of surprised Mendelssohn isn't in here for this kind of lute. I guess they are sticking to the dirt for almost a million less.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Originally Posted by burnsy

We are from a different generation. your point is well taken. Grade 1, 2 or 3 could be put in front of any of these races and there is no difference except for the money involved. And some of the other races are way better.


I think the idea was to attract better foreign talent and that fell short this year too. I'm kind of surprised Mendelssohn isn't in here for this kind of lute. I guess they are sticking to the dirt for almost a million less.

They are trying to get Mendelssohn to the BC Classic. Running him on turf in July doesn't get him there.

[MadVindication]

Wasn't going to bother with this race but it's a free TFUS pp today and after taking a look I really like this one. I think it's got a nice layer of competition and chaos to make it a good watch, and a challenging handicap. Hard to predict the post time odds here.

Really like the two Euro shippers. 7/2 for Hunting Horn is pretty good.

Maraud intrigues me, maybe not FTW, but he looks like one of the least pace dependent of the American horses, midpack running style, mid post, seems a decent play. At the G3 Transylvania where he finished off the board, with Analyze It as winner, sounds like Maraud had lots of work to do from the rail post, and this race he won't.