Somebeach Somewhere or Big Brown

[pktruckdriver]

Well who is better and Why?

Somebeach Somewhere or Big Brown

[njcurveball]

Big Brown is about 15 seconds faster than SomebeachSomewhere going a mile!

[pktruckdriver]

Yeah is that trotting ??

Both are supposed to be freaks of nature!!


Horse's like Adios Butler, Nihilator, Cams Card Shark, Moni Maker, or who......

aren't they too freaks, or just really great horses.

Any horse ever do both type of racing, thoro and Harness? Just Curious

[freddyblu22]

Originally Posted by pktruckdriver

Well who is better and Why?

Somebeach Somewhere or Big Brown

somebeachsomewhere is the fastest 2 year old in harness racing history.

big brown is winning races with beyer figures that are very average compared to past derby/preakness winners.

[headhawg]

Originally Posted by freddyblu22

big brown is winning races with beyer figures that are very average compared to past derby/preakness winners.

Yes, but he's never been pushed. He easily won the first two TC races. Do you think that there was nothing left in the tank? Trust me -- I thought BB was a mirage before the Derby and the 3yo crop is not the strongest, but BB is/could be something special (depending on ones perspective).

[freddyblu22]

Originally Posted by headhawg

Yes, but he's never been pushed. He easily won the first two TC races. Do you think that there was nothing left in the tank? Trust me -- I thought BB was a mirage before the Derby and the 3yo crop is not the strongest, but BB is/could be something special (depending on ones perspective).

im not taking anything away from big brown, i just think its impossible to claim that he is this generations coming of secretariat. the fact of the matter is that while he is winning in dominant fashion, who is he really beating? i think i stated this elsewhere, but if big brown was racing last year against 3 year olds of curlin, street sense, hard spun, rags to riches - do you still think he would be going for the triple crown right now? i say no.

[melman]

Somebeach had some amazing "figs" as a two year old and looks to prove it as a three year old. The nice thing with s-bred racing is that he will get to do just that on the racetrack. Somebeach will race many times in his three year old season while today's t-bred's are just not going to race very many times. Thus for the t-bred fan one has to make "projections" as to just how good the horse is. I agree that it is not Big Brown's fault that he has less than great horses to defeat but if you look at "the figs" it's hard to claim him one of the best of all time. At the same time I also agree with Headhawg that the horse has not been pushed and he does show a dazzling turn of foot.

The fact that three year olds get to prove there greatness on the track in s-bred racing is a good reason to follow the s-breds. Also if your a big fan of the safety of the horse s-bred racing is for you as it is very very rare for breakdowns or horses being "put down" on the track. Simple fact being that the s-bred has much thicker legs and races slower times so he/she does not suffer those heartbreaking injuries.

As NJcurveball correctly pointed out the best s-bred is much slower than any t-bred at any distance but I take that in context as a great s-bred is still just that "great". I really don't mind that it takes about 15 seconds longer for me to cash the ticket. Plus us s-bred players don't have to see the poor horse being put down on track.

[pktruckdriver]

S-Bred is what state bred standard bred most likely, right?


You state they're bred different right, how so?

Does that mean T-breds could never Harness race,and vice versa ??

Now being the best horse for the course, Somebeach is the fastest ever, really.

Are we looking at legendary status for this horse?

[melman]

Boy pk, you are new to horse racing. No a s-bred and a t-bred could never compete with each other, the t-bred is a much faster animal. Yes you are correct with s-bred I mean standardbred if you look at the legs of the s-bred compared to the legs of the t-bred you will quickly understand.

Somebeach is NOT yet with the likes of Niatross or Nialator or Jenna's Beach Boy or the other great s-bred's of the past. However based on his two year old season he sure does have a good chance to go down as an "all-timer". The great part is we will get to see him race many times this year. No projections needed he will show it on the racetrack.

[toetoe]

Mel my man,

Tell me whether this rumor is possibly accurate: a nice trotter (the name eludes me right now) broke stride the other day ... into a pacing gait.

If true, WOW !!! That's talent.

[mostpost]

Originally Posted by pktruckdriver

S-Bred is what state bred standard bred most likely, right?


You state they're bred different right, how so?

Does that mean T-breds could never Harness race,and vice versa ??

Now being the best horse for the course, Somebeach is the fastest ever, really.

Are we looking at legendary status for this horse?

As most on this board know, all thoroughbreds trace their lineage back to three foundation stallions. The Byerley Turk, The Godolphin Arabian, and The Darley Arabian. These three were imported into England during a forty year period beginning aroud 1687. They had many progeny, but only those who can trace their ancestry through Eclipse, Herod or Matchem are considered Thoroughbreds. (As of the present day 90%+ of all thoroughbreds are descendents of Eclipse; most of the rest descend from Matchem; the Herod line has just about died out.)
The standardbred line began with Messenger. Messenger was a thoroughbred foaled in England in 1780. After his racing career,(He won eight of fourteen races and was never out of the money.) he was sent to America where he became a succesful sire. It was soon noticed that his get had an affinity for trotting. Many mares were bred to him for use in trotting races. At about the same time, a breed of horse called the Morgan Horse was becoming popular.
The Morgan Horse was smaller (About 14.2 hands and sturdier than a thorobred.) Combining Messenger's progeny with members of the Morgan breed produced sturdy but swift animals. All of which could trace back to Messenger on at least one side.
In 1867 John H. Wallace published the Trotting Supplement to the American Stud Book. Later, when the National Association Of Trotting Horse Breeders was established, Wallace turned over the tsk of defining a standard bred to them.
This information can be found in "THE COMPLETE BOOK OF HARNESS RACING'
BY PHILLIP A. PINES. I think I have been accurate here, but if anyone sees any errors of fact or interpretation please correct me

[The Bit]

Originally Posted by toetoe

Mel my man,

Tell me whether this rumor is possibly accurate: a nice trotter (the name eludes me right now) broke stride the other day ... into a pacing gait.

If true, WOW !!! That's talent.

Corleone Kosmos broke about 25 yards from the wire in the Trotting Classic last Saturday at Mohawk. Went from trotting to pacing.