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11-09-2017, 05:36 PM
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#1
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,852
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Controversy at the BCBC.
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11-09-2017, 05:40 PM
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#2
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 11,474
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Interesting.
That is a lot of big name tournament players listed in there.
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11-09-2017, 06:51 PM
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,149
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It is very interesting, big players as you say. It is kind of like Poker colluders that proximity posted in the Poker thread,
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11-09-2017, 06:53 PM
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,149
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If they are out there reading this I'd like to hear PA posters C Davis and Nick Tamm's take on this.
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11-09-2017, 07:33 PM
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#5
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,852
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RunForTheRoses
If they are out there reading this I'd like to hear PA posters C Davis and Nick Tamm's take on this.
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I think we know their take, they both signed the lettet.
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11-09-2017, 07:51 PM
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,594
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I read the article but I find what was done (allegedly) confusing.
Could someone break it down in more simple terms?
Thanks in advance.
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11-09-2017, 07:53 PM
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
I think we know their take, they both signed the lettet.
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OK I said take, how about anything further, etc. You should know what I mean. I am aware they signed the letter,
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11-09-2017, 07:54 PM
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: East Texas
Posts: 1,341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
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Recall that in the Horseplayers TV series there was one guy that the others always suspected of "collusion" in tournaments. He's mentioned in the following article, and described as a close friend of Gabbay. Which is not to say he did anything in the BCBC, but it is an interesting coincidence.
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/...107-story.html
"Gabbay, who said he is saving his winnings to buy a house in Solana Beach, is no stranger to the handicapping leader board. He and his Del Mar horseplayer buddies, Kevin McFarland and Christian Hellmers, have long been known as the “Pick Six Boys.”
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11-09-2017, 08:11 PM
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#9
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 11,474
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 098poi
I read the article but I find what was done (allegedly) confusing.
Could someone break it down in more simple terms?
Thanks in advance.
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In a nutshell, you had 2 players (in theory) colluding to play against the rest of the field in which they were wagering together on a single entry till that entry was gone, and then started firing their selections on the next one, and ended up winning.
The 1st entry had a $1 Million bonus if he won.
They are also known "business" partners who share their winnings in horse wagering tournaments.
In short, it was a $7,500 tourney, and they started with $15,000 and twice as many bullets as everybody else.
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11-09-2017, 08:17 PM
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker
In a nutshell, you had 2 players (in theory) colluding to play against the rest of the field in which they were wagering together on a single entry till that entry was gone, and then started firing their selections on the next one, and ended up winning.
The 1st entry had a $1 Million bonus if he won.
They are also known "business" partners who share their winnings in horse wagering tournaments.
In short, it was a $7,500 tourney, and they started with $15,000 and twice as many bullets as everybody else.
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Thanks, it will be interesting to see the outcome. My prediction, (Trevor voice) "There will be no change, no change"
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11-09-2017, 08:52 PM
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#11
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Just another Facist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Now in Houston
Posts: 52,916
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker
In a nutshell, you had 2 players (in theory) colluding to play against the rest of the field in which they were wagering together on a single entry till that entry was gone, and then started firing their selections on the next one, and ended up winning.
The 1st entry had a $1 Million bonus if he won.
They are also known "business" partners who share their winnings in horse wagering tournaments.
In short, it was a $7,500 tourney, and they started with $15,000 and twice as many bullets as everybody else.
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Great post!
__________________
WE ARE THE DUMBEST COUNTRY ON THE PLANET!
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11-09-2017, 09:00 PM
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 2,752
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It is in human nature for people to take an edge when money and opportunity meet. Those in charge have to plan for the worst and put rules and enforcement in play that assumes the worst. Not sure what specifically can be done but an outcome like this should have been predicted.
I don't see how they can make any change unless they have irrefutable evidence which is unlikely.
It's one of the reasons that my preference in a tournament would be the "pick and pray" mode. It eliminates this kind of thing while forcing those to focus on true handicapping. I think a "betting" challenge has very little to do with "handicapping".
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11-09-2017, 09:07 PM
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,289
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It seems that if a tournament allows for a person to have 2 entries it shouldn't have any problem with so-called collusion. Don't you still have to make the right selections and bets? If such a strategy was advantageous people should be using it every day at the track and not just in tournaments.
I met the Pick 6 boys when they first got into racing. They were taking the weekly seminars from Jim Quinn at Del Mar. Nisan, was a very bright, quiet, but self-assured 18 year old. Certainly no fluke that he was in contention for the top prize.
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11-09-2017, 09:19 PM
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#14
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 11,474
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyC
It seems that if a tournament allows for a person to have 2 entries it shouldn't have any problem with so-called collusion. Don't you still have to make the right selections and bets? If such a strategy was advantageous people should be using it every day at the track and not just in tournaments.
I met the Pick 6 boys when they first got into racing. They were taking the weekly seminars from Jim Quinn at Del Mar. Nisan, was a very bright, quiet, but self-assured 18 year old. Certainly no fluke that he was in contention for the top prize.
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100%.
In the end, they had to make winning picks. Turning $7,500 into $176K isn't exactly easy to do in a couple of days at the Breeders Cup.
Still not sure which side of the fence I sit on this one. I know if I ever made it to the NHC or BCBC (hell alone would be awesome) with another buddy or two, I'd be hard pressed we wouldn't be colluding on some kind of stategy to cash for as much as we could.
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11-09-2017, 09:21 PM
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#15
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vaguely on topic...
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 104
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why do i feel that nobody ITT has the slightest idea what the word collusion means?
or game theory, for that matter
Last edited by zawaaa; 11-09-2017 at 09:23 PM.
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