Just what is the Sartin Methodology? - Page 3 - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

46zilzal · 08-11-2006, 01:43 AM

your reference to ADC is unknown to me. Advanced programs have gone far past energy and without BOTH of us having the program, leaves explaining things as an impossible task.

Paternally? wouldn't dream of it. Not trying to "talk down" to you.

Not lecturing just am not going to go through it here...takes having the program in front of one to explain it's nuts and bolts.

Binder · 08-11-2006, 05:38 AM

Hi Andicap and TimTam
andicap:
Its a hard question for me to answer, In truth I just do't know,
There are men on the P and C who I know use other methods
with a bit of the methodology mixed in. There are men like 46
who take things from the programs and focus and develope
there own ways. I know that the methodology when Doc retired
was about profit wagercapping and looking at 1 powerful readout,,
on the validator program called V/DC. This was an all inclusive readout
based on Velocity / Deceleration, which produced many ties amoung
your 4 or 5 contenders readouts. It was then up to you to break those
ties using final odds and hideing the low odds horse
I was also asked to ingnore Jockeys, Trainers, Bias, modeling
except for the Late/Early Graph
I would say that these features made the methodology different than most pace methods

Timtam : I bet 2 horses to win
Sometimes I will make an Exacta box with those two win bets and a
third horse. I wager online at night MNR. Penn CT
If I can get home early I will try to do late races from any day track
I did every race everyday from Philly Park for years
yet I only modeled the L/E I wager there on the weekends
Thanks
Bill

shanta · 08-11-2006, 08:18 AM

Hey hey the gang's all here ( Michael P wrote the intro)

Tom · 08-11-2006, 10:21 AM

Andy,
As you and Kelien know from experience, %Energy has pretty eluded my understanding

but this E/L graph that 46 frequently mentions is really easy to understand and use. I find it to be the most reliable thing in the new prgrams, along with the Bottom Line Betting screen. Admittedly, I am an amature in this new stuff, but every time I use the prgram (Val3) I get good results from those screens.
I understand it is some kind of a relationship between EP and third fraction - just not sure what.

At Binder's site, there is a very good thread discussing Energy with lots of examples. I find his site very helpfull.

46zilzal · 08-11-2006, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Binder

There are men on the P and C who I know use other methods with a bit of the methodology mixed in. There are men like 46 who take things from the programs and focus and develope there own ways. I know that the methodology when Doc retired was about profit wagercapping

Sartin methodology is a tool not a religion. One interprets it to the style one learns. At the heart of it, IN THE PAGES OF THE FOLLOW UP, the magazine of the Sartin methodology, is the lesson that one uses this the WAY IT WORKS, not by some standard, and therefore OVERUSED method. The entire idea of the programs being ADAPTABLE stresses the idea that some readouts, at some courses will be MUCH STRONGER than others and that is the great thing about those programs. In a parimutuel game going along with the "crowd" leads to disaster.

That is true for Thromomation, Engen, Kgen, Synthesis, Energy, Val2, Val3, Spec, Spec NP, Spec EX, Spec PA, Spec 150, ValM, and SPec 160. IF you HAVE to go by rules rather than interpretations your imagination is not in gear.

46zilzal · 08-11-2006, 11:32 AM

V/DC (in the program Validator) was a "gimmick" (called probabily convergence) to draw horses of greater probability closer to those with lesser probability by assigning smaller mathematical differences between them.

shanta · 08-11-2006, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 46zilzal

V/DC (in the program Validator) was a "gimmick" (called probabily convergence) to draw horses of greater probability closer to those with lesser probability by assigning smaller mathematical differences between them.

one of the most ingenious ideas which helped quite a few folks get away from the old " top 2 itis" which was taught for years if you followed the method.

Those not quite up to the top appliers of the method regarding paceline and contender selection( ME for example) were finding they were losing a lot of long priced horses who would show up 3rd and 4th ranked. While a lot of the time the " better" users would be able to get a lot of those in the top 2.

By "seeing" the v/dc readout where LONGSHOTS ( $ 40.00, $ 60.00 etc etc) all of a sudden had a "3" ( sometimes 2) as a "ranking" more FOCUS was applied to looking for VALUE for the second of 2 win wagers.

Win % dropped noticeably ( my current 2 horse % is 40%) from the 60 -75 % levels BUT average win $ increased due to larger prices. There is always a tradeoff.

There are MANY more "recreational" users of software than so called "pros". In almost every case the profit from longer priced horses comes from horses NOT in the top 2 of readouts but rather from tiers ( ranks) THIRD and FOURTH.

This applies to MANY different software packages.

Howard just made it easier on the mind to " buy into" with the creation of the v/dc readout.

"Voodoo" readout NOT based in "absolute" reality? YES. Nothing wrong with a little "helping hand" especially when it involves LONGSHOTS.

My opinion anyway

Richie

DJofSD · 08-11-2006, 12:12 PM

zz - you left out Entropy!

DJofSD · 08-11-2006, 12:14 PM

Quote:

By "seeing" the v/dc readout where LONGSHOTS ( $ 40.00, $ 60.00 etc etc) all of a sudden had a "3" ( sometimes 2) as a "ranking" more FOCUS was applied to looking for VALUE for the second of 2 win wagers.

Doc always cautioned -- make sure to consider the runner with rankings like 3-3-X or similar.

46zilzal · 08-11-2006, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJofSD

zz - you left out Entropy!

never had that one as a STAND ALONE program: it was built into some of the others. Then I didn't have Pace Laucher or Quad Rater either.

DJofSD · 08-11-2006, 12:30 PM

Doc did put the summary screen for Entropy into the later/last releases of T'mation. While having the complete program does offer some minor advantages, on the whole, Entropy was a different animal and in my experience would set up a scitoma if improperly used with any Energy! based program. But then I think there was a successful marriage of energy/velocity with deceleration in Validator and SPEC.

Dick Schmidt · 08-11-2006, 03:56 PM

"Sartin methodology is a tool not a religion."

Believe me, that's not the way Doc saw it, and not the way he designed it. True believers were what he craved.

Dick

I went to a bookstore and asked the sales woman, "Where's the self-help section?" She said if she told me, it would defeat the purpose.

46zilzal · 08-11-2006, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dick Schmidt

Believe me, that's not the way Doc saw it, and not the way he designed it. True believers were what he craved.

Things stand up or fail based upon the science, not faith. One believes out of evidence not some blind adherence to the theoretical.

Binder · 08-11-2006, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 46zilzal

Things stand up or fail based upon the science, not faith. One believes out of evidence not some blind adherence to the theoretical.

But I do believe I have a chance to win
He made it happen

I'm the one putting in the correct pace line ,thinking that Doc is watching me
I'm the one hideing the favorite
Hearing Doc say "Don't worry"
I'm the one who gets the rush when a 4th or 5th ranked horse on BLBL
that was moved closer to the top by Probability Convergance and the VDC readout wins and pays $31.00
I am the one that looks at the E/L and eliminates false contenders
Because thats what I was told would work, and it does
Of course its not a religion. But The man knew how to make some people "Get It"
Bill

P.S
Thank you very much Tom for the nice words on the site

46zilzal · 08-11-2006, 05:58 PM

what does "why tell me what see" mean?