Pegasus Changes

[classhandicapper]

I can see why West is disappointed the Pegasus purse will be dropped so much. He was getting good odds under the old format However, Maximum Security is a relatively fresh horse and there's over a month between the Pegasus and the Saudi race. It's not like a 3m race is anything to sneeze at. If I was him, I'd consider running in both unless there are issues I am unaware of.

Over 1 month between races for a relatively fresh horse is not long enough anymore?

Now we need 2 months?

[dilanesp]

The original theory of the entry fees was as a pushback against Dubai, which basically used a whole bunch of oil money to subsidize their unprofitable race, which has helped to destroy American championship racing. And that really bothered Stronach because it destroyed his signature race, the Santa Anita Handicap.

The entry fees model created a gigantic "purse", so he could market his race as the richest in the world. It allowed him to stick his finger in his eye.

With no ability to stage the richest race in the world anymore, there's no reason for the purse to be so high.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

The original theory of the entry fees was as a pushback against Dubai, which basically used a whole bunch of oil money to subsidize their unprofitable race, which has helped to destroy American championship racing. And that really bothered Stronach because it destroyed his signature race, the Santa Anita Handicap.

The entry fees model created a gigantic "purse", so he could market his race as the richest in the world. It allowed him to stick his finger in his eye.

With no ability to stage the richest race in the world anymore, there's no reason for the purse to be so high.

I get that, but imo the entry fee strategy was doomed to fail.

If I have a 25-1 shot I may take a chance at a big purse if my horse is doing well, the entry fee is modest, and I think I at least have a decent shot to get 3rd, 4th, or 5th money. That could work out better than looking for a softer spot with a much smaller purse.

Why would I put up a ton of money to run a horse like that in a race where I'm 25-1?

With a huge entry fee, the only owners that should be interested are the major contenders. It's kind of screaming for a small field.

[JohnGalt1]

Originally Posted by cj

J



I'll be the first to admit I really don't care about things like career earnings, but it is was just sloppy and deceitful. And this kind of stuff carries over into things that do matter, like falsely reporting run ups and distances, for example.

Which is why those who make a class rating based on career earnings divided by starts is worthless with so many tracks with arbitrary inflated purses.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I get that, but imo the entry fee strategy was doomed to fail.

If I have a 25-1 shot I may take a chance at a big purse if my horse is doing well, the entry fee is modest, and I think I at least have a decent shot to get 3rd, 4th, or 5th money. That could work out better than looking for a softer spot with a much smaller purse.

Why would I put up a ton of money to run a horse like that in a race where I'm 25-1?

With a huge entry fee, the only owners that should be interested are the major contenders. It's kind of screaming for a small field.

Well, they structured the purse so you would get most or all of your entry fee back.

It was never really a $16 million race.

[jay68802]

No lasix.

[Appy]

I like that the changes are far more realistic than before, and the Stronach outfit for taking a stand for horse's best interests.

[cj]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

Well, they structured the purse so you would get most or all of your entry fee back.

It was never really a $16 million race.

Of course not, but it doesn't change the fact that longshots lost real money for their connections. The first year it was 750,000. That is not getting most of your money back. The next year it was 350,000, and the field only filled because Stronach entered some no hope horses just to fill the field. It didn't take owners long to figure out exactly what classhandicapper is saying here, the risk/reward made no sense unless you were one of the top horses in the race.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by cj

Of course not, but it doesn't change the fact that longshots lost real money for their connections. The first year it was 750,000. That is not getting most of your money back. The next year it was 350,000, and the field only filled because Stronach entered some no hope horses just to fill the field. It didn't take owners long to figure out exactly what classhandicapper is saying here, the risk/reward made no sense unless you were one of the top horses in the race.

You have to remember those that bought in also got a cut of admissions, tv rights, etc. I’ve never heard what that amounted to.

I don’t see why they don’t run Max in both races is it’s only money that concerns him (and not terrible human rights abuses, a mans wife having to flee the country to be protected from him, and little trivial matters like that).

[clicknow]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

However, Maximum Security is a relatively fresh horse and there's over a month between the Pegasus and the Saudi race.

I'm sorry, but I see Max as a terrific race horse, but not so sure about his constitution/confirmation/health overall. Could not run in the Belmont because the trainer thoguht he needed more time to recover from the KY Derby. He waited til July 20th to run at Monmouth. Then he was out of the Sept. PA Derby due to a colon displacement that had to be utterly painful.

I just don't think he is a gladiator/war horse type. And, that's okay, because I believe in "letting the horse tell you" and I respect any trainer who does that.

Some horses are more prone to ailments, some also fall out of condition very fast (colonel john) and it's a real uphill battle for trainer to keep 'em together.

So you or I *deciding* what he can and cannot do,, esp. since neither of us work with the horse on a daily basis, is sort of just "having an opinion" with zero actual inside knowledge.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

You have to remember those that bought in also got a cut of admissions, tv rights, etc. I’ve never heard what that amounted to.

I don’t see why they don’t run Max in both races is it’s only money that concerns him (and not terrible human rights abuses, a mans wife having to flee the country to be protected from him, and little trivial matters like that).

There is a reason you never heard what it amounted to.

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by cj

There is a reason you never heard what it amounted to.

There sure were no TV revenues given they paid NBC.

[JustRalph]

CJ. Sharp posts. I was completely unaware......

[horsefan2019]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

The original theory of the entry fees was as a pushback against Dubai, which basically used a whole bunch of oil money to subsidize their unprofitable race, which has helped to destroy American championship racing. And that really bothered Stronach because it destroyed his signature race, the Santa Anita Handicap.

The entry fees model created a gigantic "purse", so he could market his race as the richest in the world. It allowed him to stick his finger in his eye.

With no ability to stage the richest race in the world anymore, there's no reason for the purse to be so high.

I would say the middle eastern oil money is very tempting especially if they start to make more inroads into getting American thoroughbreds there to race. Nobody can really compete with that. Those races don't have the prestige or history, but they are basically waving tens of millions of dollars around and its probably really hard for an owner to turn that down.
Also I went to a recent edition of the Big Cap and was shocked to see how far its fallen in terms of attendance and people caring.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by the little guy

There sure were no TV revenues given they paid NBC.

Yep. And the rumors are while they charged plenty for tickets, they also gave a lot of tickets out for a discount or for free to friends snd corporate patrons. So they didn't have much money to share with the entrants on that end either.