Ban On Lasix

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

I am not questioning his "ethics". I am saying that people don't say things where they have a financial interest in not saying them. That's not a point about ethics. It's a point about human nature.

First, wrong, that is definitely about ethics. Second, he has zero financial interest in Lasix.

[jay68802]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

Let me ask you this. If you think Lasix could cause breakdowns, then the proposed raceday ban should not be nearly enough for you. It’d still be legal in training, where it’d likely be used then far more then than it is now. My guess is that among top trainers, maybe 50% use it for breezes. Probably close to 0% of low level horses use it for breezes. These numbers would undoubtedly increase. The ones pushing for the raceday ban just want to be able to say we don’t run on raceday Lasix. That’s totally for breeding value. They couldn’t care less if it’s used any other time (or if it causes breakdowns).

The public’s being hoodwinked on the Lasix ban legislation. It’s all about the blueblood breeders, for the blueblood breeders.

I am looking at this this way. It is a start, and for horse racing to do this small step is a big move for the industry. I agree with you on what you are saying to an extent. And yes, I would be for a complete ban of lasix if it is proven to cause or increase the chance of breakdowns. I just do not want this to be delayed or changed before the start of the ban.

[clicknow]

Originally Posted by jay68802

And yes, I would be for a complete ban of lasix if it is proven to cause or increase the chance of breakdowns.

I am also concerned about how it affects the thoroughbred breed, since the rest of the world doesn't use it, and therefore what causes many to think of our horses as "tainted".....

...and, if we are breeding bleeders, by passing on the trait (because not all horses bleed to the extent where they need medication, that has been proven, there are classes of bleeders) then it's good not to use it.

[Parson]

Ky Racing Commission voted yesterday to ban race day lassix in all 2 yr olds 1/1/2020 and all stakes races 1/1/2021 https://www.courier-journal.com/stor...an/2629568001/

[groupie doll]

Originally Posted by Parson

Ky Racing Commission voted yesterday to ban race day lassix in all 2 yr olds 1/1/2020 and all stakes races 1/1/2021 https://www.courier-journal.com/stor...an/2629568001/

Good. I love change.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by Parson

Ky Racing Commission voted yesterday to ban race day lassix in all 2 yr olds 1/1/2020 and all stakes races 1/1/2021 https://www.courier-journal.com/stor...an/2629568001/

so they went from no ban when voted on a month ago to this?

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

First, wrong, that is definitely about ethics. Second, he has zero financial interest in Lasix.

Really?

My profession is supposed to abide by ethical rules, and yet we also don't say things that are against our clients' interests. The two things have very little to do with each other.

Bramlage's financial interest is in working in this industry, which is full of dopers and cheaters for whom Lasix is a key tool. So he's never going to admit what everyone in the rest of the world says.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Parson

Ky Racing Commission voted yesterday to ban race day lassix in all 2 yr olds 1/1/2020 and all stakes races 1/1/2021 https://www.courier-journal.com/stor...an/2629568001/

This may mean Stronach's ban is going to stick.

[rastajenk]

Since this is essentially a roomful of handicappers, I have to ask:

How will you attack a stakes race in 2021 that has a significant number of allowance races (with Lasix) in the body of past performances?

[jay68802]

Originally Posted by Parson

Ky Racing Commission voted yesterday to ban race day lassix in all 2 yr olds 1/1/2020 and all stakes races 1/1/2021 https://www.courier-journal.com/stor...an/2629568001/

Now to get Saratoga, Belmont, Aqueduct, Laurel, Gulfstream, and Oaklawn on board.

Originally Posted by rastajenk

Since this is essentially a roomful of handicappers, I have to ask:

How will you attack a stakes race in 2021 that has a significant number of allowance races (with Lasix) in the body of past performances?

Right now the same way I do now, and keep careful records to see if changes are needed.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by rastajenk

Since this is essentially a roomful of handicappers, I have to ask:

How will you attack a stakes race in 2021 that has a significant number of allowance races (with Lasix) in the body of past performances?

Probably won't play many stakes races until later in the year.
Back in the day, when NYRA did not allow lasix, I would throw out horses shipping who had been running on it.

Same thing now. Certainly won't be betting on low odds horses running clean for the firs time. Might be some opportunities for big form reversals and jump ups in class.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Tom

Probably won't play many stakes races until later in the year.
Back in the day, when NYRA did not allow lasix, I would throw out horses shipping who had been running on it.

Same thing now. Certainly won't be betting on low odds horses running clean for the firs time. Might be some opportunities for big form reversals and jump ups in class.

Certainly until they show us they can do it.

There were horses like Precisionist, in that era, who proved multiple times that they could ship back to NY, go off Lasix, run well, and then go back on it. But first time? Not a good bet.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

Really?

My profession is supposed to abide by ethical rules, and yet we also don't say things that are against our clients' interests. The two things have very little to do with each other.

Bramlage's financial interest is in working in this industry, which is full of dopers and cheaters for whom Lasix is a key tool. So he's never going to admit what everyone in the rest of the world says.

Dilan, you need to just stop. Or give us your real name so I can go disparage your reputation publicly with zero reason, proof, or evidence for doing so.

[senortout]

Originally Posted by cj

I don't think you have to be certified as a bleeder any more to get Lasix, though I guess like most things it varies by state.

I have a good memory but dates elude me just the same. Anyway, maybe oh 15 years ago I was reading and handicapping races from Arlington park, perhaps it was still a dirt track in those days, etc, etc. The past performances have a comment line at the end of each race and many, many of the comments made therein, especially on younger horses, or on horses shipping in from other states...and those which had at least one race in Illinois....selecting from that group then, you could invariably read the comment 'bled'. Numerous horses on one card, and every card, for days! Bled was in the comment section and you could look up and see the first time lasix symbol*where it is still displayed*. Unfailingly, in order to get lasix administered, the comment line included the word, 'bled' It is inconceivable that all of them bled. To any noticeable degree at least. Yet, the horsemen were so intent on 'leveling that part of the playing field' that the track seemingly obliged. So, to recapitulate, lasix had to have been banned at that time for all but the true 'bleeder'.


DRAW YOUR OWN CONCLUSIONS. ps I know I've used too many words to describe a simple situation, please reread the bits and it'll come to you. Tom ps please know that I do not support lasix use. I support a breeding program which promotes the racing of sound, healthy horses.

[cj]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

Certainly until they show us they can do it.

There were horses like Precisionist, in that era, who proved multiple times that they could ship back to NY, go off Lasix, run well, and then go back on it. But first time? Not a good bet.

Don't we see it every year in Dubai? Don't recall a single bleeding incident used as a reason for a poor performance.