Jerry Hollendorfer Banned from Santa Anita

[delsully]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

The thing is, when human athletes stray into the fancy stuff, they get suspended and sometimes even banned from their sports.

But does the owner suffer? Jerry Jones made just as much money when Zeke was suspended those 6 games (I know it wasn’t from PEDs).

Severely punishing owners would probably drive some out of the game. Obviously, habitual abusers and cruelty should be dealt with accordingly.

[cj]

Originally Posted by delsully

But does the owner suffer? Jerry Jones made just as much money when Zeke was suspended those 6 games (I know it wasn’t from PEDs).

Severely punishing owners would probably drive some out of the game. Obviously, habitual abusers and cruelty should be dealt with accordingly.

Sure, it cost him the playoffs and/or seeding and possible extra playoff games. That is a lot of money.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by cj

Real suspensions too, not vacations in the Caribbean.

its always nice to have a suspension from Del Mar or Saratoga and appeal it to Aquaduct in December or Los Al.

Suspensions for careless riding should start at 30 days for the first offence. I am not talking about a horse causing an infraction but something like herding over intentionally and then bumping.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by delsully

But does the owner suffer? Jerry Jones made just as much money when Zeke was suspended those 6 games (I know it wasn’t from PEDs).

Severely punishing owners would probably drive some out of the game. Obviously, habitual abusers and cruelty should be dealt with accordingly.

NFL owners will rarely suffer because the sport makes billions. Still, to the extent a major suspension hurts a team, such as Ray Rice or Tom Brady, it certainly hurts.

And similar rules are applied in other sports that don't make the sums the NFL makes.

The reality is if the only way the sport can survive is by not punishing doping, that's an argument for abolition. I don't think that's actually true- I think owners will simply refuse to hire dopers if they are responsible. But if it were true, it would mean the sport should be prohibited.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

its always nice to have a suspension from Del Mar or Saratoga and appeal it to Aquaduct in December or Los Al.

Suspensions for careless riding should start at 30 days for the first offence. I am not talking about a horse causing an infraction but something like herding over intentionally and then bumping.

I think they should start 24 hours later, with no court appeals. A quick review by the commission is all that is required.

[horsefan2019]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

The entire country of Russia was just suspended for four years from all international competitions, including Olympics and World Cup, for doping offenses.

Fager, numerous innocent Russian athletes are surely going to be hurt by this, just like your horse owners who you say (but who are actually not) innocent.

And yet, this is what was done, because Russia will now have an incentive to police doping. This is what serious sporting authorities do.

If horse racing were run by serious people, every owner who employed a cheating trainer, knowingly or unknowingly, would be out of the sport for awhile. Because I don't care if they are "innocent" (again, they aren't, but pretending they are)- I care that they have the right incentives to police their trainers.

WADA only has jurisdiction over Olympic sports.
They tried for years to get into the business of the NFL, of course the NFL wanted nothing to do with them.
I doubt these guys would have any clue about veterinary medicine.

[delsully]

Originally Posted by cj

Sure, it cost him the playoffs and/or seeding and possible extra playoff games. That is a lot of money.

Possibly, it’s not like they went 0-6 without him.

[delsully]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

NFL owners will rarely suffer because the sport makes billions. Still, to the extent a major suspension hurts a team, such as Ray Rice or Tom Brady, it certainly hurts.

And similar rules are applied in other sports that don't make the sums the NFL makes.

The reality is if the only way the sport can survive is by not punishing doping, that's an argument for abolition. I don't think that's actually true- I think owners will simply refuse to hire dopers if they are responsible. But if it were true, it would mean the sport should be prohibited.

The Ravens won more games without RR and the Pats won the SB that year.

Nowhere did I say dopers shouldn’t be punished, just said I didn’t think owners should be severely punished when it’s not habitual or cruel.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by horsefan2019

WADA only has jurisdiction over Olympic sports.
They tried for years to get into the business of the NFL, of course the NFL wanted nothing to do with them.
I doubt these guys would have any clue about veterinary medicine.

Actually it's player's unions that keep WADA out of American sports. If players are doping, unions have to defend players- that's how we got the steroids era in baseball.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by delsully

The Ravens won more games without RR and the Pats won the SB that year.

Nowhere did I say dopers shouldn’t be punished, just said I didn’t think owners should be severely punished when it’s not habitual or cruel.

The Pats did not win the SB that year. I know. I bet them. (And I never bet sports. )

[horsefan2019]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

Actually it's player's unions that keep WADA out of American sports. If players are doping, unions have to defend players- that's how we got the steroids era in baseball.

And its a good thing. The last thing we need in American sports is a bunch of stuffy European bureaucrats telling us how to run a sport they have zero business being involved in.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by horsefan2019

And its a good thing. The last thing we need in American sports is a bunch of stuffy European bureaucrats telling us how to run a sport they have zero business being involved in.

The thing is, WADA's lack of involvement in the sports they regulate is exactly what makes them an effective agency.

If track and field were regulated by former track coaches and trainers, doping would be rampant. You basically have to have outsiders who reap no benefit from the sport if you want to do anything about doping.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

The thing is, WADA's lack of involvement in the sports they regulate is exactly what makes them an effective agency.

If track and field were regulated by former track coaches and trainers, doping would be rampant. You basically have to have outsiders who reap no benefit from the sport if you want to do anything about doping.

How long did it take them to catch Armstrong?

Maybe with so little experience with equines and drugs we can expect better results. 😂

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

How long did it take them to catch Armstrong?

Maybe with so little experience with equines and drugs we can expect better results. 😂

EPO and blood doping were tough to detect, because they didn't show up in normal drug tests.

But WADA found ways to detect them. The important point is, cycling was making a lot of money off Armstrong. Had cycling officials run the testing, they would have great incentives to do exactly what the CHRB did when they discovered the Triple Crown winner last year was doped and his Hall of Fame trainer had cheated.

[clicknow]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

If track and field were regulated by former track coaches and trainers, doping would be rampant. You basically have to have outsiders who reap no benefit from the sport if you want to do anything about doping.

Originally Posted by dilanesp

EPO and blood doping were tough to detect, because they didn't show up in normal drug tests.

But WADA found ways to detect them. The important point is, cycling was making a lot of money off Armstrong. Had cycling officials run the testing, they would have great incentives to do exactly what the CHRB did when they discovered the Triple Crown winner last year was doped and his Hall of Fame trainer had cheated.

Somebody who *gets it*. You don't have the foxes guarding the hen house.

Racing can't regulate themselves and have proved it over and over again.