New York Post takes a big shot at racing. Unfair provocative headline?

[Andy Asaro]

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[Inner Dirt]

What is their definition of doped?

[Andy Asaro]

Originally Posted by Inner Dirt

What is their definition of doped?

Right.

Thing is that this time the anti horse racing people are getting their message out in a big way. Many in the Industry are panicking and we see another big push for synthetic surfaces to replace dirt.

[Robert Fischer]

they're getting more informed, and it doesn't help the industry when a member of the industry Fred Hudson or whoever in the article , is contributing to a hit-piece against the industry and portrayed as to be in in concert with a racket like the 'Animal Wellness Action' and Wayne Pacelle.

A call for more influence in the media like this Post thing.

This beseeches insiders to have a frank discussion with people such as Fred Hudson who wish to be a part of the industry (ceo of harness association ?), as to the responsibility of being part of the industry.

A need to preemptively stream positive propaganda.

[classhandicapper]

Does anyone know the fatality statistics in harness racing vs thoroughbred racing?

[JustRalph]

That pic of the horse laying on the track alone, devastating

[Prairie Bettor]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

Does anyone know the fatality statistics in harness racing vs thoroughbred racing?

I don't know the exact stats, but I would guess a minimum 10 TB to 1 SB on track deaths. It's probably much higher. Harness deaths just don't happen.

It's a different game, jockeys vs drivers. Test my theory, put a little child on your back and run around the block, then put him in a wagon and pull him. Which is more stressful?

[lamboguy]

i really know the answer to this problem... if you date back to the 1950's, the fatality rate was 2 deaths in 1000 races, today the rate is 1 per thousand.

so you have to look at what has changed in the last 70 years. the use of multi-medications that lead to an increase in the length of time between races from an average of a horse running once every 5 days back in the 1950s to once every 5 weeks in the 2020s. look at the races in Hong Kong, Australia, and the rest of the world, their horses run basically every week. Their fatalities are nowhere near as frequent as North American horses.

too much emphasis these days on younger horses, too many conditions in condition books, and less frequent races have hurt the game in a major way.

the structure for this sport is way out of whack. As a fan, I want to see more great horses run as 5 and 6-year-olds, or even older. by sitting on their asses and doing nothing to change, track management has only succeeded in scaring people away from the game, and bringing outside criticism and protest against the sport.

try making horses run every week without those drugs in them and see how fast the breakdowns decrease.

[Andy Asaro]

One of the BIGGEST problems is that most connections can't afford to give horses the time off they need to heal up. I had a phone conversation with Bruce Headley about 6 years ago and he was talking to me about horses needing time off instead of constant injections. Just off the top of his head he rattled off about 10 different injuries/problems that were fairly common and the approximate time off for them to heal up.

Racing needs to be conducted in States where the cost of doing business is at least 1/3 of what it is in California or New York. And racing MUST consolidate so more horses are concentrated at less jurisdictions so giving horses time off doesn't affect field sizes.

I don't expect any of this to happen because for the most part racing can't find its own ass with both hands.

Good luck

[Sheffwed]

Originally Posted by lamboguy

i really know the answer to this problem... if you date back to the 1950's, the fatality rate was 2 deaths in 1000 races, today the rate is 1 per thousand.

so you have to look at what has changed in the last 70 years. the use of multi-medications that lead to an increase in the length of time between races from an average of a horse running once every 5 days back in the 1950s to once every 5 weeks in the 2020s. look at the races in Hong Kong, Australia, and the rest of the world, their horses run basically every week. Their fatalities are nowhere near as frequent as North American horses.

too much emphasis these days on younger horses, too many conditions in condition books, and less frequent races have hurt the game in a major way.

the structure for this sport is way out of whack. As a fan, I want to see more great horses run as 5 and 6-year-olds, or even older. by sitting on their asses and doing nothing to change, track management has only succeeded in scaring people away from the game, and bringing outside criticism and protest against the sport.

try making horses run every week without those drugs in them and see how fast the breakdowns decrease.

It's nearly impossible to keep a decent horse running in handicaps in the US once they work through existing allowance conditions - then its the cheap claimer grinder mill and trainers like Burton Sipp then pick up the dregs and keep them going

I would imagine deaths are worse at B/C tracks, its just not getting reported

And yes, number of drugged horses in the US is much higher than in HK or similar, of course the same was true of baseball players during the Sosa/McGwire days, how quickly we forget - its human nature to cheat if you can, all the global banks do it, until they face regulation that prevents them

adequate self regulation never happens, lack of regulation brought on the global financial crisis of 2008 (and everyone chases the money when they can - witness PGA/LIV and the ridiculous shenanigans of Randall Lane who knows nothing about the sport, I can tell you personally he has no clue, just access to some money somewhere)

global minimum standards are what is needed - and we are in dead last on this front today here in the US

[lamboguy]

Originally Posted by Sheffwed

It's nearly impossible to keep a decent horse running in handicaps in the US once they work through existing allowance conditions - then its the cheap claimer grinder mill and trainers like Burton Sipp then pick up the dregs and keep them going

I would imagine deaths are worse at B/C tracks, its just not getting reported

And yes, number of drugged horses in the US is much higher than in HK or similar, of course the same was true of baseball players during the Sosa/McGwire days, how quickly we forget - its human nature to cheat if you can, all the global banks do it, until they face regulation that prevents them

adequate self regulation never happens, lack of regulation brought on the global financial crisis of 2008 (and everyone chases the money when they can - witness PGA/LIV and the ridiculous shenanigans of Randall Lane who knows nothing about the sport, I can tell you personally he has no clue, just access to some money somewhere)

global minimum standards are what is needed - and we are in dead last on this front today here in the US

in my opinion, the breakdowns in places like the Mountain that have horses that are re-treads are probably a lot less than the A-tracks because the horses run more often than the higher class places. the purses are less so they have to run the horses more and probably run with less designer drugs that are expensive. believe it or not, The Mountain features a great condition book where there are much less fancy conditions and the races come back and fill more frequently. a condition might go one week at 5 1/2 furlongs and the next time it goes you will see a 6 furlong race.

no question The Mountain has its problems, but they try to maintain some consistency, unlike the major tracks that bring their problems onto themselves by being mismanaged with huge payrolls.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by Prairie Bettor

I don't know the exact stats, but I would guess a minimum 10 TB to 1 SB on track deaths. It's probably much higher. Harness deaths just don't happen.

It's a different game, jockeys vs drivers. Test my theory, put a little child on your back and run around the block, then put him in a wagon and pull him. Which is more stressful?

Maybe I should break out my Steve Chaplin harness handicapping books and get my harness game back up to speed.

[Publius]

Murdoch's NY Post stopped covering racing years ago. There was an absurd
editorial in that rag back in March of this year.

The latest hit piece is actually an editorial disguised as a "news" story.

[Sheffwed]

Originally Posted by lamboguy

i really know the answer to this problem... if you date back to the 1950's, the fatality rate was 2 deaths in 1000 races, today the rate is 1 per thousand.

so you have to look at what has changed in the last 70 years. the use of multi-medications that lead to an increase in the length of time between races from an average of a horse running once every 5 days back in the 1950s to once every 5 weeks in the 2020s. look at the races in Hong Kong, Australia, and the rest of the world, their horses run basically every week. Their fatalities are nowhere near as frequent as North American horses.

too much emphasis these days on younger horses, too many conditions in condition books, and less frequent races have hurt the game in a major way.

the structure for this sport is way out of whack. As a fan, I want to see more great horses run as 5 and 6-year-olds, or even older. by sitting on their asses and doing nothing to change, track management has only succeeded in scaring people away from the game, and bringing outside criticism and protest against the sport.

try making horses run every week without those drugs in them and see how fast the breakdowns decrease.

Big fan of the Mountain here, not so much Burton Sipp - of course the other thing we don't see is horses who end up being discarded as opposed to being repurposed like trainers such as Keri Brion go out of their way to do among others

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by Publius

Murdoch's NY Post stopped covering racing years ago. There was an absurd
editorial in that rag back in March of this year.

The latest hit piece is actually an editorial disguised as a "news" story.

Racing can't seem to get any positive press lately...be it in a "rag" like the NY Post or in that super-prestigious American institution, the New York Times...so...there's that.