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07-27-2014, 08:02 PM
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#91
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
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It has the same meaning as the Wood Memorial, which also has a big purse. It is a prep.
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07-27-2014, 08:03 PM
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#92
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NJ/MD
Posts: 1,185
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dilanesp
First, the Woodward is meaningless. It is a prep for the BC. Other than Rachel, when's the last time a Woodward decided an Eclipse Award?
And you are ignoring that the field was crappy and small (like many prep races).
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Seriously? Check out some of the winners of the Woodward in recent times. Havre de Grace, Rachel, Curlin, Lawyer Ron, St. Liam, Ghostzapper, Mineshaft, Lemon Drop Kid. All winners of the Woodward since 2000, all of them Eclipse Award winners. SIX of them went on to be Horse of the Year.
Meaningless couldn't be further from the truth.
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07-27-2014, 08:11 PM
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#93
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Smartass
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 592
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By your own logic with respect to the Jim Dandy, the Woodward should be an ungraded allowance.
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07-27-2014, 08:27 PM
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#94
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,222
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by biggestal99
Asterick * lol that's like the asterisk for roger Maris in 1962. Fact is that zenyatta remains the only female BC classic winner. Heck Rachel ducked three shots at running in the BC.
Rachel beat macho again, zenyatta beat gio Ponti.
Rachel barely held on. Zenyatta won going away.
Allan
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Every one of the top dirt males were put at the disadvantage of having to run on a surface that favors turf runners.
It's too bad that we never saw Zenyatta on turf because her running style and ability to close into snail paces on synthetics made her look like a natural on turf. In any event, the unfortunate synthetic experiment resulted in one synthetic superhorse and her name was Zenyatta. She was also good on dirt - I'm not taking that away from her - but clearly she was this country's #1 ranked and far superior synthetic horse. The turf horses that she beat showed no indication that they were better on synthetics than turf, so even those horses likely weren't running on their preferred surface either.
Let's see, Rachel raced in and won the Oaks, Preakness, Acorn, Haskell, then Woodward, all within 4 months. And you wouldn't think it forgivable that the 3yo filly might've gotten a little tired at the end of the Woodward?
Last edited by Fager Fan; 07-27-2014 at 08:29 PM.
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07-27-2014, 09:14 PM
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#95
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by andtheyreoff
Seriously? Check out some of the winners of the Woodward in recent times. Havre de Grace, Rachel, Curlin, Lawyer Ron, St. Liam, Ghostzapper, Mineshaft, Lemon Drop Kid. All winners of the Woodward since 2000, all of them Eclipse Award winners. SIX of them went on to be Horse of the Year.
Meaningless couldn't be further from the truth.
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Havre de Grace is not a comparison you want to make.
She, just like Rachel, won the Woodward.
She then got her BUTT handed to her in the BC Classic.
Kinda shows you which one is the tougher race.
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07-27-2014, 10:16 PM
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#96
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,222
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dilanesp
Havre de Grace is not a comparison you want to make.
She, just like Rachel, won the Woodward.
She then got her BUTT handed to her in the BC Classic.
Kinda shows you which one is the tougher race.
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She finished 4th by 3 lengths. I've seen far worse butt-whippings. But her example is the perfect one, showing how that meaningless prep meant enough that she won HOY despite losing the Classic.
A lot of other very nice horses have lost the Classic. Including Eclipse winners.
A reasonable person sees the extraordinary achievement by Rachel when she beat older males in the Woodward.
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07-27-2014, 11:17 PM
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#97
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 3,822
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dilanesp
Havre de Grace is not a comparison you want to make.
She, just like Rachel, won the Woodward.
She then got her BUTT handed to her in the BC Classic.
Kinda shows you which one is the tougher race.
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After your point---that the Woodward is meaningless---was refuted and crushed for the illogical, biased garbage that it is, maybe you should just slink off and be quiet for a while rather than point out that Havre de Grace didn't win the BC Classic as the next building block of your argument.
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07-28-2014, 12:48 AM
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#98
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Posts: 1,791
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LOL a thread about California Chrome and the Pennsylvania Derby turned into a discussion about the Woodward. One guy thinks it doesn't matter and all the east coast homers think it's the biggest race in the universe.
Jesus Christ some of you guys need a long look in the mirror.
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07-28-2014, 09:55 AM
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#99
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 3,822
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rex Phinney
LOL a thread about California Chrome and the Pennsylvania Derby turned into a discussion about the Woodward. One guy thinks it doesn't matter and all the east coast homers think it's the biggest race in the universe.
Jesus Christ some of you guys need a long look in the mirror.
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What are we supposed to say about California Chrome that wasn't said already? The horse has to actually be entered the race before we can really talk more about it, doesn't it? It's still two months away.
Jesus Christ Rex, take the stick out of your...well, wherever guys like you put the stick.
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07-28-2014, 10:04 AM
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#100
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,646
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dilanesp
First, the Woodward is meaningless. It is a prep for the BC. Other than Rachel, when's the last time a Woodward decided an Eclipse Award?
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The Woodward wasn't meaningless when Holy Bull won it. And I'm pretty sure that race clinched his Eclipse Award, as he did not run in the BC.
Holy Bull's Woodward was one of the greatest tour de force races I have ever personally witnessed live. The field he beat that day was pretty damn impressive, wouldn't you say?
Then again, those were the days when the Woodward was run at Belmont...which I assume you would interpret as making it even LESS important because it wasn't run at Saratoga... 
When's the last time a non BC race in California CLINCHED an Eclipse Award of any importance?
Last edited by PaceAdvantage; 07-28-2014 at 10:06 AM.
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07-28-2014, 10:28 AM
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#101
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
When's the last time a non BC race in California CLINCHED an Eclipse Award of any importance?
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I guess whichever field of tomato cans Zenyatta beat in her last start before losing to Blame.
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07-28-2014, 10:36 AM
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#102
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 14,569
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California
Another big east coast purse goes to a Cal-trained horse yesterday.
Been more than usual this year.
It's great out here. 
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07-28-2014, 11:04 AM
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#103
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,749
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
The Woodward wasn't meaningless when Holy Bull won it. And I'm pretty sure that race clinched his Eclipse Award, as he did not run in the BC.
Holy Bull's Woodward was one of the greatest tour de force races I have ever personally witnessed live. The field he beat that day was pretty damn impressive, wouldn't you say?
Then again, those were the days when the Woodward was run at Belmont...which I assume you would interpret as making it even LESS important because it wasn't run at Saratoga...
When's the last time a non BC race in California CLINCHED an Eclipse Award of any importance? |
The Bull was one of my favorite horses ever, but the older horses of 1994 were a weak bunch. 3yos ran 1-2-3-4 in the classic if I recall correctly.
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07-28-2014, 11:31 AM
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#104
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,222
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ronsmac
The Bull was one of my favorite horses ever, but the older horses of 1994 were a weak bunch. 3yos ran 1-2-3-4 in the classic if I recall correctly.
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Devil His Due ran second. Funny how times change. I loved the Devil but he was "nice" at the time, not fantastic. But look at his record now and tell me what we'd say today about a hard-knocking winner of almost $4m (with no big payday races in there) with all these graded wins and placings. He makes a lot of today's horses look like lightweights.
http://www.equibase.com/profiles/Res...405®istry=T
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07-28-2014, 12:18 PM
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#105
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by castaway01
After your point---that the Woodward is meaningless---was refuted and crushed for the illogical, biased garbage that it is, maybe you should just slink off and be quiet for a while rather than point out that Havre de Grace didn't win the BC Classic as the next building block of your argument.
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The Woodward is meaningless because it doesn't decide divisional championships. It is a prep for a race that does.
Saying "look at the nice horses who won it" isn't a response to that, because of course the New York BC preps will be won by nice horses. Nice horses like Mucho Macho Man and Game On Dude and Pleasantly Perfect win the Santa Anita prep race too
It's still a prep and it still draws a crappy field compared to the BC Classic.
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