Religion II

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by HalvOnHorseracing

I was watching a movie in English/Spanish and the translations were often ridiculous. The captain is on the intercom and when the conversation ends he says, "yo fuera" which literally translates to, "I'm outside." The captain was simply saying, out, the conversation is over - I'm out.

Remember the old saying. "A camel is a horse designed by committee." The fact that there have been many translations and translators for a respective document in no way guarantees perfection.

There is a show called "The Carbonaro Effect." Not only could he turn water into wine, he could turn water into a mouse too.

It takes a lot of time and effort to learn another language. Who needs it? I like Boxcar's way better. Just look for the bible translation that suits your agenda...and ignore what doesn't agree with you.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

It takes a lot of time and effort to learn another language. Who needs it? I like Boxcar's way better. Just look for the bible translation that suits your agenda...and ignore what doesn't agree with you.

And time and effort are precisely what hundreds of teams of language scholars invested in their bible translations.

And I don't ignore anything. I have at my disposal right now about 15 translations, and have consistently maintained that serious bible students will always avail themselves to multiple translations. You assume Christians are dishonest, yet YOU are deliberately misrepresenting my position.

You should quit striving to sink to the murky, miry depths of some others on this thread, and instead rise above them.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Did law enforcement have a warrant for their wiretap?

Would the answer to that question determine whether or not the evidence is admissible?

Convictions and exonerations can be obtained through indirect evidence. Fingerprints are indirect evidence. DNA is indirect evidence.

This entire line is a red herring. My thesis is that there is no such thing as direct evidence.

There is more evidence for the big bang than for theistic creation. Period.

Your thesis is wrong. The wiretap example I gave would be direct evidence.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

In remember you once lied about not "'doing" videos.

Btw, yes we all lie but you lie to yourself more than any poster here.

If you are brave enough to watch either the first video about children and dogs loving with no "original sin" at all , or the second, a beautiful Christian Shaker song, written and composed in 1848 by Elder Joseph Brackett, you might re-think your absurd and contemptible "law of universal distrust" (or mistrust), and you would learn something about love and compassion. My suspicion is if youtube and the internet and this song were around back then, your boy Calvin might have lightened up some.

The lyrics are fine, but both the lyrics and music together are good for your always sour, bitter disposition

'Tis the gift to be simple, 'tis the gift to be free
'Tis the gift to come down where we ought to be,
And when we find ourselves in the place just right,
'Twill be in the valley of love and delight.
When true simplicity is gained,
To bow and to bend we shan't be ashamed,
To turn, turn will be our delight,
Till by turning, turning we come 'round right.

Sour and bitter like the Job or David or Moses and others? Here, I have truthful "lyrics" for you:

Job 25:4
"How then can a man be just with God?
Or how can he be clean who is born of woman?
NASB

And,

Job 15:14
4 "What is man, that he should be pure,
Or he who is born of a woman, that he should be righteous?
NASB

And,

Ps 51:5
5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
And in sin my mother conceived me.
NASB

And,

Ps 58:3
3 The wicked are estranged from the womb;
These who speak lies go astray from birth.
NASB

And,

Gen 8:21
21 And the Lord smelled the soothing aroma; and the Lord said to Himself, "I will never again curse the ground on account of man, for the intent of man's heart is evil from his youth; and I will never again destroy every living thing, as I have done.
NASB

Mark 10:18
18 And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.
NASB

And,

Rom 3:10-18
"There is none righteous, not even one;
11 There is none who understands,
There is none who seeks for God;
12 All have turned aside, together they have become useless;
There is none who does good,
There is not even one."
13 "Their throat is an open grave,
With their tongues they keep deceiving,"
"The poison of asps is under their lips";
14 "Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness";
15 "Their feet are swift to shed blood,
16 Destruction and misery are in their paths,
17 And the path of peace have they not known."
18 "There is no fear of God before their eyes."
NASB

So, again, I ask you. Even if all people come into this world in neutral moral gear, how is it statistically possible that half the world isn't morally perfect? (And please, please, please....spare me the inane drivel about the corrupting influences of societies, since this non-answer begs the question.

And have you ever lied in your life?

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Your thesis is wrong. The wiretap example I gave would be direct evidence.

Wrong! The wiretap is indirect evidence of indirect evidence. First the wiretap itself is a recording. The recording is an arrangement of thousands of magnetic domains on a tape. Those domains are evidence that the air pressure in the room where the microphone was located varied in a certain way. The assumption is that that variation was due to the vibrations of someone's vocal cords. Etc., etc., etc. The chain continues all the way to nerves in someone's ears. None of it is direct evidence.

[hcap]

S

o, again, I ask you. Even if all people come into this world in neutral moral gear, how is it statistically possible that half the world isn't morally perfect? (And please, please, please....spare me the inane drivel about the corrupting influences of societies, since this non-answer begs the question.

And have you ever lied in your life?

What statistics are you using to judge "neutral moral gear or morally perfect"? Btw, bunky....

List of countries by intentional homicide rate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._homicide_rate

UNODC murder rates, most recent year
Region Rate Count percentage
Americas 16.3 157,000.... 0.010%
Africa 12.5 135,000.... 0.009%
World 6.2 437,000.... 0.001%
Europe 3 22,000..... 0.014%
Oceania 3 1,100.....0 0.273%
Asia 2.9 122,000.......... . .002%

[hcap]

Maybe the devil is a less than a one per center?

[hcap]

So, again, I ask you. Even if all people come into this world in neutral moral gear, how is it statistically possible that half the world isn't morally perfect?

I would tell you to spend time with young children so you could experience their lack of "original sin" first hand.

But I would not wish that on the most miss-behaved child to have ever lived.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

SWhat statistics are you using to judge "neutral moral gear or morally perfect"? Btw, bunky....

List of countries by intentional homicide rate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._homicide_rate

UNODC murder rates, most recent year
Region Rate Count percentage
Americas 16.3 157,000.... 0.010%
Africa 12.5 135,000.... 0.009%
World 6.2 437,000.... 0.001%
Europe 3 22,000..... 0.014%
Oceania 3 1,100.....0 0.273%
Asia 2.9 122,000.......... . .002%

So, in your world, morality is distilled down to only the sin of murder? You need pull your head out of whatever dark hole it's in and get out more often.

But there is a silver lining to your simple-minded post: Trump must be an upright, upstanding, virtuous human being...IF you're consistent.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

So, in your world, morality is distilled down to only the sin of murder? You need pull your head out of whatever dark hole it's in and get out more often.

But there is a silver lining to your simple-minded post: Trump must be an upright, upstanding, virtuous human being...IF you're consistent.

I don't have time right now to document just how wrong you are. An overall murder rate of less than 1 % worldwide says something.

But I asked you for your stats.
As usual you are fact and data free.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

I don't have time right now to document just how wrong you are. An overall murder rate of less than 1 % worldwide says something.

But I asked you for your stats.
As usual you are fact and data free.

Stats? On what do you need stats? Don't you know that ALL people in this world are morally flawed? But this would be impossible, statistically, if everyone comes into the world in a morally neutral state. Everyone but you, apparently, knows this fact. There are no morally perfectly human beings in existence -- unless you're going to declare yourself as an exemption.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Stats? On what do you need stats? Don't you know that ALL people in this world are morally flawed? But this would be impossible, statistically, if everyone comes into the world in a morally neutral state. Everyone but you, apparently, knows this fact. There are no morally perfectly human beings in existence -- unless you're going to declare yourself as an exemption.

Do you see the world in only black and white? You seem to judge everyone as perfect or not perfect with no middle ground

a)Don't you know that ALL people in this world are morally flawed?

No!

b)But this would be impossible, statistically, if everyone comes into the world in a morally neutral state.

No

c) There are no morally perfectly human beings in existence.

Maybe

Get one of these to remind you justice uses balance without bias

[PhantomOnTour]

A Friday conversation during Lent:
"I'm hungry; let's throw this live lobster into a pot of boiling water and then eat it"
"Cool, but you better not kill and eat a chicken!"

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by boxcar

And time and effort are precisely what hundreds of teams of language scholars invested in their bible translations.

And I don't ignore anything. I have at my disposal right now about 15 translations, and have consistently maintained that serious bible students will always avail themselves to multiple translations. You assume Christians are dishonest, yet YOU are deliberately misrepresenting my position.

You should quit striving to sink to the murky, miry depths of some others on this thread, and instead rise above them.

Yes...yes...how could I not respect those "language scholars"...and the thorough work that they do? I mean...look at how much time and effort they have spent in defining common everyday Greek words like "agape", or "metanoia". A Greek encounters these words and knows instantly what their exact meaning is...whereas the foreigner consults the "language scholars"...and is plunged into confusion and contradiction. Just as the Hindu probably shakes his head in disbelief when he sees the foreigners grapple to define simple Hindu words like "karma", or "yoga".

Keep reading those different bible translations, Boxcar. Time is on your side...you'll get to the bottom of the "true meaning" eventually.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Yes...yes...how could I not respect those "language scholars"...and the thorough work that they do? I mean...look at how much time and effort they have spent in defining common everyday Greek words like "agape", or "metanoia". A Greek encounters these words and knows instantly what their exact meaning is...whereas the foreigner consults the "language scholars"...and is plunged into confusion and contradiction. Just as the Hindu probably shakes his head in disbelief when he sees the foreigners grapple to define simple Hindu words like "karma", or "yoga".

Keep reading those different bible translations, Boxcar. Time is on your side...you'll get to the bottom of the "true meaning" eventually.

Now, you're catching on! How could you not respect hundreds (if not more) of language scholars when they have done exactly what you say I should do!!!

The only thing that counts is that I have a very good understanding of Jesus' Gospel Message of Life. And that is infinitely more knowledge and understanding than you have of the counsel of God.