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Old 08-09-2018, 11:33 PM   #7591
Lemon Drop Husker
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Old 08-10-2018, 01:59 AM   #7592
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From Wikipedia:
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In the song, Michael Stipe sings the lines "That's me in the corner/That's me in the spotlight/Losing my religion". The phrase "losing my religion" is an expression from the southern region of the United States that means losing one's temper or civility, or "being at the end of one's rope." Stipe told The New York Times the song was about romantic expression. He told Q that "Losing My Religion" is about "someone who pines for someone else. It's unrequited love, what have you."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Losing_My_Religion
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Old 08-10-2018, 06:56 AM   #7593
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The book boxcar recommends

The Boxcar Children: Surprise Island



Will god murder them for rampant original sin, after "judging" them?

Can't wait to find out
Well...like the cover said: "Small Island, Big Adventure."

Gotta read the book to find out.
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Old 08-10-2018, 07:23 AM   #7594
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Well...like the cover said: "Small Island, Big Adventure."

Gotta read the book to find out.
Are you saying that "boxcar", not you, knows god's will just like the boxcar who posts here?

I see, just calling yourself "box car" enables a direct connection, or perhaps a major delusional state?
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Old 08-10-2018, 09:56 AM   #7595
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Are you saying that "boxcar", not you, knows god's will just like the boxcar who posts here?
There's actually a lot of people on earth who know God's will. Obviously, of course, you're not one of them.

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I see, just calling yourself "box car" enables a direct connection, or perhaps a major delusional state?
Actually, I call myself "boxcar". Even the small things you can't get right.
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Old 08-10-2018, 01:12 PM   #7596
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Actually, I call myself "boxcar".
Definition of "boxcar":
  • a railroad freight car with a roof. M-W
Miscellaneous slang:
  • In craps: a double 6.
  • Law: a large settlement or jury award.
  • Gambling: a large payoff.
  • Motorcycles: a side-car designed to carry cargo rather than passengers.
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Old 08-10-2018, 01:16 PM   #7597
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Definition of "boxcar": [LIST]Gambling: a large payoff.
That fits because that's how I got the nickname many moons ago when I used to go to the track to make my bets.
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Old 08-10-2018, 01:20 PM   #7598
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That fits because that's how I got the nickname many moons ago when I used to go to the track to make my bets.
Others called you that...or was the nickname self-imposed?
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Old 08-10-2018, 02:22 PM   #7599
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Recently, Mr. Hcap has objected vehemently at the idea that God had the audacious temerity in giving man the power of free choice when he created our first parents. Of course, scripture tells us that God created man in his image, which means He created Adam and Eve as personal, moral beings with the power to make free choices -- all of these attributes God has.

I have come across an incisive and insightful quote that deals briefly with this particular subject which I found in a book that I'm currently reading. The book is The Unseen Realm -- Recovering the Supernatural Worldview of the Bible written by Dr. Michael S. Heiser. Heiser wrote:

The epic saga of the bible began with God's original intention to rule over his new creation through human imagers, all the while being present with his heavenly imagers. Heaven had come to earth. We saw how it all went awry in the wake of God's decision to grant freedom to his imagers, both divine and human. The decision was necessary, for the creature could not truly be like the creator without sharing this attribute , the ability to truly exercise free will and choose between loyalty and rebellion.

What seems to us to be a long, drawn out plan to restore that which was fallen was equally necessary. It might seem that God could have just stepped in after the fall and eliminated free will and the divine and human rebels who abused it. Eden would be ensured and that would be that. While that would produce the desired end, the original
means -- free participation in God's creation by free-will agents, designed to be like him -- would have been abandoned, amounting to a very flawed idea and spectacular failure. A resolution like that isn't fitting (or desirable) for the God of the Bible. God's original objective must come about in the way he intended. (emphasis not mine)

But of course, Hcap is a real pragmatist. He's all-in on the philosophy that teaches Moral Relativism, and as a moral relativist, he is very prone to think that the end very likely always justifies the means. How many times has he used the term "do-over" after he said that God failed. In his worldview the "do-over" would justify the end (God's original intention), which was for man to enjoy and glorify God by participating in God's earthly council?

Moreover, Hcap's premise that God failed when Adam and Eve sinned is itself an epic failure! When a general goes to do battle against a foe, and the general loses the battle, does this necessarily mean the general has lost the war? Since God is omniscient and knew in eternity which battles he would win and which he would "lose" in time and space, and God can see and anticipate all the possible moves of his foes and not only knows he will win at the end of the day, but will actually achieve victory with both kinds of members of his council having the power of free choice that he originally gave them, then God's redemptive plan not only manifests his infinite wisdom but preserves his glory! No "do-overs" for such a God because he doesn't have to compromise his holy and righteous character! God doesn't have to resort to succumbing to the very fallen idea of mere expedience -- or the end justifies the means.

As Heiser basically said, it most certainly would not have been desirable for God's imagers if God had hit the "undo" button. God would have admitted to failing and any "do-over" he would have implemented would have been seen by all his imagers as a serious moral weakness in character, as well as weaknesses in his attributes. And just who would want to love, worship, serve and fellowship with such a God? Could anyone ever trust such a God!?
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Old 08-10-2018, 02:24 PM   #7600
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Others called you that...or was the nickname self-imposed?
Nope, I earned it at the track. A "degenerate" gambler friend of mine gave me that handle and it stuck.
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Old 08-10-2018, 04:46 PM   #7601
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Originally Posted by boxcar
Recently, Mr. Hcap has objected vehemently at the idea that God had the audacious temerity in giving man the power of free choice when he created our first parents. Of course, scripture tells us that God created man in his image, which means He created Adam and Eve as personal, moral beings with the power to make free choices -- all of these attributes God has.
No. my objection is with your version of an omniscient, omnipotent, and all loving deity being at all sensible .

I don't give a a damn what scripture tell us.

A being you describe is a walking self-contradiction. Knowing what will happen from the beginning to the end of his, hers, it's creation, and giving humans so-called "free will" is absolutely no freedom at all, if the all-knowing deity "tests" his creatures with "tests" he absolutely knows they will fail. And worse does these absurd tests more than once, causing intense monstrous suffering and genocide. All loving you say?

This conception is obviously your inability to grasp what "god" may be, your woefully limed projection of a tiny mind out unto an infinite plane. Whether or not free will indeed exists, cannot be shoehorned LOGICALLY, into your shaky house of cards
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Old 08-10-2018, 05:18 PM   #7602
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No. my objection is with your version of an omniscient, omnipotent, and all loving deity being at all sensible .

I don't give a a damn what scripture tell us.

A being you describe is a walking self-contradiction. Knowing what will happen from the beginning to the end of his, hers, it's creation, and giving humans so-called "free will" is absolutely no freedom at all, if the all-knowing deity "tests" his creatures with "tests" he absolutely knows they will fail. And worse does these absurd tests more than once, causing intense monstrous suffering and genocide. All loving you say?

This conception is obviously your inability to grasp what "god" may be, your woefully limed projection of a tiny mind out unto an infinite plane. Whether or not free will indeed exists, cannot be shoehorned LOGICALLY, into your shaky house of cards
There is no contradiction. Just because God knows the end from the beginning doesn't mean that his tests aren't fair.

AGAIN...what would be a contradiction is if God made man to be unlike him, after telling us that we're made in the image and likeness of God. If God did not give man free will and yet God has free will, then that would be a contradiction.

Or if God tested Adam and Eve's loyalty to him and God stacked the deck by imposing his will upon them to get the outcome he desired.

You keep insisting that God's omniscience contradicts man's free will. Well, if that's case, then prove it already by applying the Law of Noncontradiction to God's omniscience and man's free will. By applying the Law, you will have convinced everyone! But we both know you won't because you can't!. You're just a babbler spouting off hot air.

Also, what if Adam and Eve has passed the test: Would you still be telling us that God's test was a sham, that because he knew the outcome that this constituted a contradiction?

And you're going to question whether or not free will exists? Really? Who or what forced you to reply to my last post? Was this reply of yours programmed into your DNA from birth? Or maybe hardwired, even, in your brain?
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Old 08-10-2018, 08:04 PM   #7603
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A Bible Flyover

I just finished Dr. Heiser's book "The Unseen Realm", and it was a fascinating read.

One of the neat features to the book is that after each titled section, which usually consists of several chapters, he wrote a brief summary (in most cases) for each section. The summaries, collectively, are so good and, generally, concise that I'm giving serious thought to reproducing those summaries to post here because they provide such a great overview of the biblical story. Taken together, they give the reader a coherent and succinct bird's eye view of the content of that big book we call the Bible. It would be like looking at the bible landscape from 30,000 feet up -- necessarily short on detail by design, yet long
on condensed content.

There are two exceptions to what I just stated above. One of them is that one of his summaries is lengthy, so this might require two posts. The other exception is that for some reason, he didn't summarize the last section in his book, so that would have to fall on me. But I think if I reread that last section, I would be able to compose something that would be relatively short and concise.

His summaries go to the heart of what I have often stated in this thread and the original one, for that matter: The bible is a cohesive and homogeneous body of literature that tells a unified story from cover to cover.
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Old 08-11-2018, 12:30 AM   #7604
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And you're going to question whether or not free will exists? Really? Who or what forced you to reply to my last post? Was this reply of yours programmed into your DNA from birth? Or maybe hardwired, even, in your brain?
In your view what is the function of the brain?

Anyone?
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Old 08-11-2018, 12:35 AM   #7605
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I just finished Dr. Heiser's book "The Unseen Realm", and it was a fascinating read.

One of the neat features to the book is that after each titled section, which usually consists of several chapters, he wrote a brief summary (in most cases) for each section. The summaries, collectively, are so good and, generally, concise that I'm giving serious thought to reproducing those summaries to post here because they provide such a great overview of the biblical story. Taken together, they give the reader a coherent and succinct bird's eye view of the content of that big book we call the Bible. It would be like looking at the bible landscape from 30,000 feet up -- necessarily short on detail by design, yet long
on condensed content.

There are two exceptions to what I just stated above. One of them is that one of his summaries is lengthy, so this might require two posts. The other exception is that for some reason, he didn't summarize the last section in his book, so that would have to fall on me. But I think if I reread that last section, I would be able to compose something that would be relatively short and concise.

His summaries go to the heart of what I have often stated in this thread and the original one, for that matter: The bible is a cohesive and homogeneous body of literature that tells a unified story from cover to cover.
Is this book now to be elevated to the status of scripture?
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