SAFFIE JOSEPH JR. - FURTHER POSITION TAKEN

[iamt]

The phrase Pandy used for Mott was a good horseman.


Saffie, Baffert and the rest of the 200 trainers of their ilk aren't a secret.... your revelation after seven years that Saffie is "suspicious" is about 10 years behind the times.


It has nothing to do with the composition of the stables or the like, Saffie not getting a high priced horse isn't a reflection of how he is judged, its a reflection of his connections and the fact he is based at GP and the opportunities there.


Its a slow change for a claiming trainer to build a stakes barn, and an even slower one for claiming owners to change and take the risk that expensive unraced horses present.

[paulbenny]

So Baffert is one of the 200? What are you implying regarding seven years behind the times? In terms of what regarding this 200 trainers? What are you saying about Baffert in the same vein as Joseph??? This is a serious question. Really. Baffert trains million dollar horses and is based in California where the field sizes are shrinking even compared to Florida.

[iamt]

I mean you started a thread, where after a page of comments you resolved that Saffie was "suspicious".


Most experienced horseplayers would have drawn a similar conclusion many years ago, much earlier in his career.Just as they did about Baffert and many, many other trainers who appear to be outliers in relation to their relative successes.


Hence you are many, many years behind the times.

[paulbenny]

Well, if you think he is what proof do you have? you are one of the few who think he is apparently. The few who commented were suggesting I am way off base. Well, apparently the majority of people who are out there think he is suspicious unlike the few who commented. You are at least clarifying something that you believe the majority of people believe according to your perspective and the person who mentioned the 200.

That being said, why do people think he is a good trainer off the claim or whatever reason and note he had only had one positive?

Here is a simple analogy:

Some people deliberately do their taxes wrong to their advantage
Others misinterpret the code
Others are sloppy with math

Others are to the letter of everything clear and accurate

The IRS would argue that mistakes have to be accounted for whether deliberate, sloppy or like proactive malfeasance and misinterpretation.

Most people do not get audited.

Bob Baffert is always trashed but they have a microscope on him.

Why not do the same to these other 200? That is a critical question too.

I rest my case. Thank you for your support.

[iamt]

I think people were just shocked that you thought this was some great revelation... that and your basis for working it out made no sense.


And you'd done no research.


And you seemed to think that convincing someone to let you write on their blog was a claim to fame.




And who says the 200 aren't getting the same treatment. You seem to be the one who thinks they are treated specially? What evidence do you have that only Baffert is being investigated all the time.

[paulbenny]

I am not some fly by night guy. this kind of stuff was raised by me three years ago. I am not on here long. I do not comment much. I generated some comments. I have no proof of anything. My thinking process is flawed. Apparently-- You are not clear cut yourself. I used data enough to make a point in general and did some research and others posted more compelling data.

The point of all of this is simply stated people always will pay their due and it does not have to be here. I am very disappointed in racing and maybe HISA might help. That is part of this too. I do not like wagering in Florida very much because of this situation. Good evening.

[1st time lasix]

I owned a Florida bred filly that was trained by Saffie…. No issues nor any suspicion at all of anything nefarious. I monitored the horses progress and inspected every bill. My horse was not stakes caliber… I wish she was- but I had no illusion of grandeur. She cost 50 grand at auction. I will not hesitate to give him another if I wish to race in South Florida.

[castaway01]

Originally Posted by paulbenny

So Baffert is one of the 200? What are you implying regarding seven years behind the times? In terms of what regarding this 200 trainers? What are you saying about Baffert in the same vein as Joseph??? This is a serious question. Really. Baffert trains million dollar horses and is based in California where the field sizes are shrinking even compared to Florida.

The fact Baffert's horse was disqualified from its win in the Kentucky Derby? The fact he was given long suspensions last year by Kentucky and NYRA? Are you not aware of these things? You can say you don't think the punishments are just or fair (as has been debated in this forum many times), but those suspensions are actual things that happened. The fact that they did at least puts Baffert ahead on the "guilty" list of someone you have "suspicions" about, don't they?

[paulbenny]

I never brought Baffert up others did. I then expressed my viewpoint on him and I will be clear if I was not before.

NYRA is a political animal and not a public company. It is not well run. They leverage their situation differently than Churchill Downs Incorporated.

While CDI is a public company that answers to Shareholders, I believe that both will do the same thing on a situation like this because there are no other entities that have the same influence on the business. They may not like each other, who knows, but they will move together on this.

I personally believe like I stated on tax returns, you go through it enough something will be found. I believe that BB is being used as an example and he was on the big stage and the face of the game. I just think personally he is sloppy and trains horses very hard.

I never said Joseph did anything wrong. I asked for input. Clearly the consensus is he is honest and one owner weighed in.

Why are others saying he is one of 200 that are doing things that are suspicious?? 200 is a pretty big number. I was focused and asked the question. People ran numbers and that was helpful. I am still doing mine. I am through 2019. But what others ran did help me put this to rest. I would still prefer Bill Mott. That is my preference.

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by castaway01

The fact Baffert's horse was disqualified from its win in the Kentucky Derby? The fact he was given long suspensions last year by Kentucky and NYRA? Are you not aware of these things? You can say you don't think the punishments are just or fair (as has been debated in this forum many times), but those suspensions are actual things that happened. The fact that they did at least puts Baffert ahead on the "guilty" list of someone you have "suspicions" about, don't they?

Baffert is just sloppy on his taxes.

[TMQ]

Originally Posted by paulbenny

I never said Joseph did anything wrong. I asked for input. Clearly the consensus is he is honest and one owner weighed in.

Why are others saying he is one of 200 that are doing things that are suspicious?? 200 is a pretty big number. I was focused and asked the question. People ran numbers and that was helpful. I am still doing mine. I am through 2019. But what others ran did help me put this to rest. I would still prefer Bill Mott. That is my preference.

You're making no sense. Literally your entire purpose of making this post was because you think Saffie Joseph is doing something wrong.... You. Can't have it both ways

[paulbenny]

I make absolute sense. I know people on here have data that I may not have and are more wired in. The consensus was he is pretty solid. If I thought Mott was that way I would have said the same thing. How do you figure things out unless you ask. I get a lot of data manually and my conclusion with this input is coupled with my data that he is pretty solid. I never thought anything like this for example, about Bill Mott. For that matter, Motion for sure would never raise any suspicion on my end. So what else can I tell you.

I did think he was doing something wrong and was proven wrong. It was a hypothesis.