View Poll Results: To Compete with Sports Betting must lower takeout/breakage on higher churn wagers?
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Yes, we must lower takeout/breakage on higher churn wagers
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125 |
93.98% |
No, things are where they should be.
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8 |
6.02% |
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08-23-2018, 03:11 AM
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#16
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 4,553
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Really the track gets a whole lot more than the take-out don’t they...? Sure 15% for win and 22-25% for exotics...so for example if the total handle for one card is $400,000. The tracks is said to make about roughly 20% of that in take-out or $80,000.
But in reality, there is a whole slew of bettors that bet, win, lose, win, CHURN it all away so that the track gets ALL THEIR MONEY over the long run...and multiple that times most of the bettors that play it all back and leave with no money, so how much of that $400, 000 is the track really keeping...?
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08-24-2018, 01:13 PM
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Lakehurst, NJ
Posts: 1,035
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Takeout isn't the issue. Field size is - and to fix that, there must be fewer races - and also allowing more soft-turf races to remain on the grass, which can be done, for example, at all three NYRA tracks by dismantling the permanent barriers between the outer and inner turf courses and making the turf courses just like the ones at Laurel, Gulfstream, and Arlington.
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08-24-2018, 02:09 PM
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 15,123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Roulston
Takeout isn't the issue. Field size is - and to fix that, there must be fewer races - and also allowing more soft-turf races to remain on the grass, which can be done, for example, at all three NYRA tracks by dismantling the permanent barriers between the outer and inner turf courses and making the turf courses just like the ones at Laurel, Gulfstream, and Arlington.
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Takeout is a issue. Put all the bettors on the same playing field. Rebate all bets and keep the take high, or lower the take and get rid of rebates. Agree with you on field size. The 4 and 5 horse races should be canceled. They are running for purses that are high enough. So purse size is really not a issue. Tie the purse of the race to the number of betting interests. Put it at X amount per betting interest up to a maximum purse. Figure the full purse amount on a 8 horse field.
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08-28-2018, 09:47 PM
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,554
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Or raise the sports-betting takeouts to the same level as the horse-racing takeouts. That way...there will be nothing for the bettors to complain about.
__________________
"Theory is knowledge that doesn't work. Practice is when everything works and you don't know why."
-- Hermann Hesse
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08-31-2018, 07:13 PM
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz
I really like this idea.
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this would certainly curb scratching. And force tracks to punish those that scratch just for the hell of it and without a medical reason. It just blows me away at the nonchalant manner in which people scratch now days. There used to be penalties for scratching.
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08-31-2018, 07:17 PM
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#21
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,738
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
Or raise the sports-betting takeouts to the same level as the horse-racing takeouts. That way...there will be nothing for the bettors to complain about.
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I guarantee the trend is in that direction.
Just like the triple-zero roulette wheels and 6-5 blackjack.
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08-31-2018, 07:43 PM
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#22
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 11,474
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The dipshits in charge need to make it interesting.
I'll Parlay the in the sixth with the Jets.
Back that wager, and we haz some game.
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09-05-2018, 09:27 PM
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 117
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Anytime there are uncompetitive fields, win pool bettors are taking it up the wazoo, paying way more than the advertised rate.
If I told you that the effective takeout in the win pool for Monmouth so far this year is 38% would you believe me?
Well, you don't have to, but someone with the right tools (Dave Schwartz?) can confirm it.
Why is this happening? Uncompetitive fields. The favorite is winning 47% of the time.
So yeah, the rake has to be lowered, but also, fields have to be more competitive (and larger).
But - you do have a choice of where and when to bet. Save your wazoo and be discriminate!
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09-06-2018, 08:08 PM
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,803
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09-06-2018, 08:58 PM
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#25
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 1,831
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Been looking at this circus too long, and at this point, hearing them still rant about lowering takeout is nauseating.
A poker game with a house rake of 20% would fold its tent in an hour.
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09-06-2018, 09:03 PM
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#26
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 1,831
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey
Really the track gets a whole lot more than the take-out don’t they...? Sure 15% for win and 22-25% for exotics...so for example if the total handle for one card is $400,000. The tracks is said to make about roughly 20% of that in take-out or $80,000.
But in reality, there is a whole slew of bettors that bet, win, lose, win, CHURN it all away so that the track gets ALL THEIR MONEY over the long run...and multiple that times most of the bettors that play it all back and leave with no money, so how much of that $400, 000 is the track really keeping...?
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Good point , wrong question.
The handle or part of it isn't 'kept'. What's kept are the original dollars that the players are willing/able to lose
Track makes 80k in your example. Maybe the players had 160K to lose when they 'walked in'
So the track kept 50% of that amount. Not the 20% people think of.
How come all these high priced consultants never deal with this?
Afraid to open the can of worms ?
Last edited by AltonKelsey; 09-06-2018 at 09:05 PM.
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09-06-2018, 10:48 PM
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#27
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 845
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Is it fair to compare the rates? Pro sports stand on their own w/r/t revenue generation. They don't need betting to remain profitable. I believe tracks earn most revenue via takeout. Is that wrong? One could say that they should make it as attractive as pro sports such that racing could earn the same $ amount via TV deals and the like, but that doesn't seem probable even with a great product.
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09-06-2018, 11:09 PM
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Thornhill ON
Posts: 466
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All so the new better is
Misinformed about the product to wager on.
Might as well tell the customer
Here I will take your money and spin the wheel.
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09-07-2018, 10:20 AM
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#29
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,803
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Asaro
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caton bredar and 9 others liked your Tweet 27m27 minutes ago
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09-07-2018, 02:41 PM
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#30
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: North Jersey
Posts: 207
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I feel like there's one of these conferences every year with the takeout being too high being a main point, yet nothing happens. Giant dog and pony show.
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