LARCENY IN KENTUCKY - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

PIC6SIX · 08-06-2017, 08:43 PM

Played a 50 cent P-3 at Ellis Park on 8/6/17 starting in the 3rd race. Total cost of bet was $6.00. The track was SLY and it started raining harder and they cancel the remaining races after the 3rd is completed. I go to get at refund of my $6 investment and I am returned only $3.10. I am advised to see the Mutuel Supervisor. He told me KY assumes the wager is complete and pays on the winner of the 3rd, #9/ALL/ALL. In Ohio, my residence, I would have been returned my full $6.00 if I had bet an Ohio race. I viewed the KY P-3 as a Non-Event and therefore should have been paid my complete $6.00. Seems KY wants to keep the takeout and MORE. Your comments are very welcome. However, please no Greek Philosophy.

cj · 08-06-2017, 10:35 PM

Seems like a case of a bad rule where nobody thought out the possible things that could happen. I'm assuming you spread in the first race of the P3 with the $5 winner?

I agree it is silly to not refund a bet with only one of three legs completed. But on the other hand, how about the guy that had a $50 P3 9/all/all? I doubt he is wanting a refund.

GMB@BP · 08-06-2017, 11:17 PM

I can see it both ways on this one. Your case produced a really bad result but if it was canceled in the 6th race of the pick 6 and I was alive I would certainly want them to all the last leg.

PIC6SIX · 08-07-2017, 05:47 PM

I think it is all about the Take-out. KY does not want to give up the take so this is what they do. RE, the P-6 with 5 legs won who is to assume he would win the last leg. Even if the P-3 went live ending with the 5th, usually I would get back more than my investment even if another chalk won. If the races were won by 3 consecutive 3/5 shots I would probably lose money due to the TO and multiple winners. However, in this case there were 3 chalk horses like 3/2, 5/2, and 9/5 in race 3. They put the 9 up after an inquiry but my point is there were 2 other horses taking about the same money. When KY did 9/ALL/ALL they must have assumed the second and 3rd legs were like 3/5 odds. There is no way one shoiuld lose 50% of their investment due to a non-event. Seems they made the rules,obviously, to favor the state coffers. End of story. No more KY horizontals for me.

Robert Fischer · 08-07-2017, 05:56 PM

I hate the current rule.

A multi-race wager is a multi-race wager.

You are correct in that the pick 3 never happened, it was a non-event.

I don't know enough about a bet like the pick-6, to have an opinion (regarding all multi-race bets, or the pick-6 specifically).
In a pick-3 wager, I believe the rule needs to be changed to a refund.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PIC6SIX

Played a 50 cent P-3 at Ellis Park on 8/6/17 starting in the 3rd race. Total cost of bet was $6.00. The track was SLY and it started raining harder and they cancel the remaining races after the 3rd is completed. I go to get at refund of my $6 investment and I am returned only $3.10. I am advised to see the Mutuel Supervisor. He told me KY assumes the wager is complete and pays on the winner of the 3rd, #9/ALL/ALL. In Ohio, my residence, I would have been returned my full $6.00 if I had bet an Ohio race. I viewed the KY P-3 as a Non-Event and therefore should have been paid my complete $6.00. Seems KY wants to keep the takeout and MORE. Your comments are very welcome. However, please no Greek Philosophy.

Afleet · 08-07-2017, 08:31 PM

sounds like BS and the money should be refunded, but with that said, KY still has the best racing and best bred horses in the world

SG4 · 08-07-2017, 09:58 PM

I don't know if any jurisdiction could ever write this into their rules, but how about if only 1 leg of a multi-race wager is completed, the bet is calculated at the takeout percentage of a win wager. This is a situation I've seen a fair number of times & it always stinks to see the payout be so much lower than the actual win payout since there's probably about 10% more of takeout involved. Would be nice for the tracks to make it right rather than be petty to customers in these situations when they know the customer is getting screwed over.

cj · 08-07-2017, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Afleet

sounds like BS and the money should be refunded, but with that said, KY still has the best racing and best bred horses in the world

The best racing in the world of Kentucky maybe, not much farther than that.

toddbowker · 08-09-2017, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PIC6SIX

Played a 50 cent P-3 at Ellis Park on 8/6/17 starting in the 3rd race. Total In Ohio, my residence, I would have been returned my full $6.00 if I had bet an Ohio race.

Actually, the Ohio P3 rule is exactly the same.

3769-13-27 (F)

If one or two of the win three contests are canceled or declared "no contest", the win three pool will remain valid and shall be distributed in accordance with paragraph (B) of this rule.

3769-13-27 (B)

(3) As a single price pool to those who selected the first-place finisher in any one of the three contests;

This is actually the way most jurisdictions handle it.

iamt · 08-09-2017, 07:12 PM

Most of these rules pre-date the proliferation of ADW use. There is every chance the state/track would have originally made more from unclaimed tickets under a refund rule than paying on an all.

stlseeeek · 08-09-2017, 08:18 PM

thievery at it's finest

Tom · 08-09-2017, 08:35 PM

Nice line up of the threads.....redundant?

PIC6SIX · 08-09-2017, 11:40 PM

I was told by the Head of Mutuels at Northfield Park in Ohio, where I placed my wager, that Ohio would refund the full value of my wager. Seems to conflict with your view. However, you have quoted a Code Section. So I am now confused about what Ohio does but this is now a dead issue in my book. Thanks for all comments.