RIP to Mongolian Groom and CA Racing

[clicknow]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

Well, there are allegations that various drugs were given fairly close-in to the race.

Well we know for sure he didn't fail BOTH splits of a drug test before he ran. :sarcasm:

Tests done for all BC runners (and came back within 4 days!!) from Kenneth L. Maddy Equine Analytical Chemistry Laboratory at the University of California, Davis, all came back clean. This was announced by the CHRB on November 6th.

At any rate, looks like there will be way more investigation into a horse from a tiny barn that not many people ever even heard about until he ran in the BCC, than just about any inquiry I've ever seen.

(Maybe they can get Finley to write a "balanced" article, saying there are multiple sides to the story. )

Sure wish this level of "investigation" carried over to all the horses who are vanned off or break down during a race. We would have probably have learned a lot in the last 20 years if there was transparency, hard data, and follow-up---and may have made this whole thing less likely to happen.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by The_Turf_Monster

I don't see what a necropsy or independent necropsy is going to accomplish here. The horse broke down, we all know what failed on it. Are there going to be suspensions of the vets, trainers, or owners? We all know the answer to that, so why does the horse need to be examined? Nothing is going to be learned from it, and no best practices will be taken. The only thing that would prevent it is a keen eye to conformation and how a horse looks warming up

Necropsies are mandatory in the state and as pointed out we learn a lot from them. Bramlage isn’t doing a necropsy but instead a report or investigation meaning he’ll put out a report that presumably would address everything from the injury, diagnosis of the visible lameness and treatment/drugs given, its effect on the injury if any, etc. I don’t recall this ever being done before.

[tholl]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

What I'd like to see is an independent investigation from an equine vet who has no involvement in horse racing. I don't trust Bramlage any more than I trust Arthur. There's a lot of corruption in the ranks of vets who work in horse racing.

Bring a vet over from the show jumping or dressage world to conduct the thing. Someone who has never worked for a racehorse trainer and never will.

Bramlage corrupt?? Have no idea about Arthur but Bramlage is a totally standup guy and to suggest anything other is ridiculous. As far as the idea of bringing in a "show jumping or dressage vet" indicates that you have no idea of what you are talking about. Why waste your time? Maybe just fun for you?

[AltonKelsey]

Originally Posted by cj

I have it recorded, I'll see what I can find tomorrow.

Yes, well, curious if there was any indication in the parade or warmup. Would have to be lucky to get a decent look.

[SaratogaSteve]

Originally Posted by tholl

Bramlage corrupt?? Have no idea about Arthur but Bramlage is a totally standup guy and to suggest anything other is ridiculous. As far as the idea of bringing in a "show jumping or dressage vet" indicates that you have no idea of what you are talking about. Why waste your time? Maybe just fun for you?

you must be new here

on another note, forget the armchair experts saying they "heard" something but didn't come forward, what about all of the 30 vets on track and no one called attention to the workout videos? C'mon, stop the BS.

[cj]

Originally Posted by AltonKelsey

Yes, well, curious if there was any indication in the parade or warmup. Would have to be lucky to get a decent look.

Haven't had a chance yet, going to scan it and look. I'll post any video of him I find pre-race.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by tholl

Bramlage corrupt?? Have no idea about Arthur but Bramlage is a totally standup guy and to suggest anything other is ridiculous. As far as the idea of bringing in a "show jumping or dressage vet" indicates that you have no idea of what you are talking about. Why waste your time? Maybe just fun for you?

The entire sport is corrupt, because it makes a ton of money off doping horses. Bramlage makes his living in this industry, so there's no reason whatsoever to think he will rock the boat.

So no, I don't trust him. I don't trust ANYONE who works as a vet in American thoroughbred racing. The vets are literally the problem.

If you prefer a racehorse doctor, we would need to bring one over from a country/jurisdiction that disallows doping.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by clicknow

Well we know for sure he didn't fail BOTH splits of a drug test before he ran. :sarcasm:

Tests done for all BC runners (and came back within 4 days!!) from Kenneth L. Maddy Equine Analytical Chemistry Laboratory at the University of California, Davis, all came back clean. This was announced by the CHRB on November 6th.

At any rate, looks like there will be way more investigation into a horse from a tiny barn that not many people ever even heard about until he ran in the BCC, than just about any inquiry I've ever seen.

(Maybe they can get Finley to write a "balanced" article, saying there are multiple sides to the story. )

Sure wish this level of "investigation" carried over to all the horses who are vanned off or break down during a race. We would have probably have learned a lot in the last 20 years if there was transparency, hard data, and follow-up---and may have made this whole thing less likely to happen.

Yep.

And I love your sarcasm about the excuse given for Justify (tests take time!).

Those racing board officials who put the fix in on Justify should be in jail.

[bob60566]

The United States Thoroughbred racing industry has no anti-doping and medication control program and the cheaters control much of the sport.

So when is this going to cease,?

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

No one would or should question Bramlage’s ethics.

A show horse vet doesn’t have anywhere near the knowledge needed for the kind of investigation that Bramlage is being asked to do.

I'm sorry, I don't trust anyone who works as a veterinarian in the sporr of American thoroughbred racing, Bramlage included.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

The entire sport is corrupt, because it makes a ton of money off doping horses. Bramlage makes his living in this industry, so there's no reason whatsoever to think he will rock the boat.

So no, I don't trust him. I don't trust ANYONE who works as a vet in American thoroughbred racing. The vets are literally the problem.

If you prefer a racehorse doctor, we would need to bring one over from a country/jurisdiction that disallows doping.

I feel the same about lawyers.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

I feel the same about lawyers.

You SHOULD feel that way about some groups of lawyers. But not all groups of lawyers.

[Elkchester Road]

Originally Posted by bob60566

The United States Thoroughbred racing industry has no anti-doping and medication control program and the cheaters control much of the sport.

So when is this going to cease,?

Scary question, all people considered. Kind of get the feeling that American racing could be drawing it's last breath and some of these "characters" would be needling while others would be covering it up.

Until much of the financial incentives are removed from American racing, NOTHING is changing. The horses will continue to be treated as commodities. Wash, rinse, repeat.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Elkchester Road

Scary question, all people considered. Kind of get the feeling that American racing could be drawing it's last breath and some of these "characters" would be needling while others would be covering it up.

Until much of the financial incentives are removed from American racing, NOTHING is changing. The horses will continue to be treated as commodities. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Personally I think legislation is the best way to solve it.

A significant portion of horse racing's problems actually traces back to a single issue- the sport is regulated by insiders.

The entire premise behind something like WADA is that you put a group of scientists who don't stand to make a single dollar from the sports they regulate in charge of drug testing. So that's who you want to be doing your drug testing.

Similarly, you want your regulators to be people with no participation in the sport. People who have no relationships with any owners, trainers, or veterinarians. Yes, there will be a learning curve because they will have to get to know the sport, but the people who are making decisions as to what medications are allowed, when horses have to be scratched, what trainers and vets have to be removed from the sport, etc., need to people who simply have no interest in protecting their friends or their own future incomes.

One story about vets, and this might explain some of the reason I don't accept everyone's assurances about how honest Larry Bramlage is. This sport kept Alex Harthill in the sport for 40 years, AFTER he fixed the Kentucky Derby by doping a horse. Not only did he keep his job, he was exactly what Bramlage now- a charismatic, media-friendly vet who was called on when there was some issue that required a vet's opinion or an examination.

I mean, compare that to baseball's treatment of the Black Sox. All of them were removed from baseball, permanently. For fixing 8 baseball games.

How many of the vets in our sport have doped horses in 8 races or more? And they don't even face a suspension or a fine, let alone getting kicked out of the sport.

If we want this sport to survive, the key regulatory decisions need to be taken by people who wouldn't even return Bob Baffert's or Steve Asmussen's or, yes, Rick Arthur's or Larry Bramlage's calls. And you can get that through federal legislation.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

The entire sport is corrupt, because it makes a ton of money off doping horses. Bramlage makes his living in this industry, so there's no reason whatsoever to think he will rock the boat.

So no, I don't trust him. I don't trust ANYONE who works as a vet in American thoroughbred racing. The vets are literally the problem.

If you prefer a racehorse doctor, we would need to bring one over from a country/jurisdiction that disallows doping.

The legal profession is corrupt, so I guess that makes you corrupt as well.