Special counsel Robert Mueller

[delayjf]

Manafort handing over specific polling data on the three battleground states Trump won to Konstantin Kolinik a Russian intel, the absence of a crime can not yet be assumed.

Assume the above is correct. How is it illegal or, how does this amount to a conspiracy?

[davew]

Originally Posted by delayjf

Assume the above is correct. How is it illegal or, how does this amount to a conspiracy?

That is why thy need to investigate ... to discover what the crime was and how Trump used it to win....

[hcap]

I said

Additionally, without delving into the myriad ties with Russia as of yet not FULLY investigated, for instance; Manafort handing over specific polling data on the three battleground states Trump won to Konstantin Kolinik a Russian intel, the absence of a crime can not yet be assumed.

Could not find Mueller's exact statement until now....



Further investigations are needed. A call for impeachment regardless of conviction in the Senate, would empower full investigatory powers and could uncover a lot.

And as I said the WRONG lawful definition** of obstruction of justice by the DOJ, about an underlying crime needed, Barr et al must be very cautious

Att: DOJ, careful what you wish for.
.....................

**From Politifact
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-be-obstructi/

We checked with 11 legal experts to nail down answers. Essentially all of these experts agreed that obstruction can indeed be prosecuted without an underlying crime — and has been in the past, notably in the case of Martha Stewart.

[delayjf]

you should be worried about the intelligence abuses surrounding this so-called investigation. Security has been breached by outside contractors, 85% of searches regarding U.S. citizens were illegal, foreign spies put together fake intelligence reports, spying on U.S. citizens.

If it is deemed that the FISA warrants were obtained improperly, how would that affect the entire investigation visa a vie "fruit of the poisonous tree" doctrine?

[hcap]

The statement by Mueller about a thorough FBI investigation yielding evidence,

is From David Frum.
https://www.salon.com/2019/05/05/mue...iracy_partner/

....“But the evidence does indicate that a thorough FBI investigation would uncover facts about the campaign and the President personally that the President could have understood to be crimes or that would give rise to personal and political concerns,” the report continues.

“As described in Volume I,” the report states, “the evidence uncovered in the investigation did not establish that the President or those close to him were involved in the charged Russian computer-hacking or active-measure conspiracies, or that the President otherwise had an unlawful relationship with any Russian official.”

“But the evidence does indicate that a thorough FBI investigation would uncover facts about the campaign and the President personally that the President could have understood to be crimes or that would give rise to personal and political concerns,” the report continues.
This section of the analysis comes after Mueller’s investigators lay out evidence that Comey’s firing meets the three common elements in federal obstruction statutes — an obstructive act, a nexus between the obstructive act and an official proceeding, and a corrupt intent.
“The President had a motive to put the FBI’s Russia investigation behind him,” Mueller’s team concluded in that analysis. “The evidence does not establish that the termination of Corney was designed to cover up a conspiracy between the Trump Campaign and Russia.”

[fast4522]

Originally Posted by delayjf

If it is deemed that the FISA warrants were obtained improperly, how would that affect the entire investigation visa a vie "fruit of the poisonous tree" doctrine?

They do not want to go there, what is coming to light is the intelligence community leaked bogus story's then used those bogus story's to obtain FISA warrants. Attacking the Attorney general of these United States to suppress his office from uncovering all of their tracks, that are slowly now being uncovered. When "fruit of the poisonous tree" comes into play not only will people go to jail but cases will be overturned.

[davew]

Originally Posted by hcap

I said

Could not find Mueller's exact statement until now....



Further investigations are needed. A call for impeachment regardless of conviction in the Senate, would empower full investigatory powers and could uncover a lot.

And as I said the WRONG lawful definition** of obstruction of justice by the DOJ, about an underlying crime needed, Barr et al must be very cautious

Att: DOJ, careful what you wish for.
.....................

**From Politifact
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-be-obstructi/

It is time for Barr to get ahold of those DNC and Clinton servers to see if the Russians hacked them or the CIA leaving Russian clues. Assuming of course they have not been wiped with a cloth, broken with a sledge hammer, encased in cement and dropped in the Atlantic ocean somewhere between North America and Africa.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by davew

It is time for Barr to get ahold of those DNC and Clinton servers to see if the Russians hacked them or the CIA leaving Russian clues. Assuming of course they have not been wiped with a cloth, broken with a sledge hammer, encased in cement and dropped in the Atlantic ocean somewhere between North America and Africa.

Clinton's emails. Obama's birth certificate ad infinitum. Hurry up and run right out and get one of these before their all sold out to your fellow PA OT chump supporters.

[Show Me the Wire]

Originally Posted by fast4522

They do not want to go there, what is coming to light is the intelligence community leaked bogus story's then used those bogus story's to obtain FISA warrants. Attacking the Attorney general of these United States to suppress his office from uncovering all of their tracks, that are slowly now being uncovered. When "fruit of the poisonous tree" comes into play not only will people go to jail but cases will be overturned.

Also, the Papadopoulos fictional tale is unraveling. Mifsud, a key player, the alleged Russian spy, who supposedly informed Papadopoulos that Russia had HRC's missing emails is denying he is a Russian spy and the conversation about emails ever took place. http://www.ilfoglio.it/esteri/2019/0...iagate-251507/ [need to translate]

Mifsud also claims he was told to meet Papadopoulos by ex-PM Scotti .The Italian press ic overing this story while, US. msm is ignoring the story.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by hcap

Clinton's emails. Obama's birth certificate ad infinitum. Hurry up and run right out and get one of these before their all sold out to your fellow PA OT chump supporters.

How convenient. The equivalent of calling someone who criticized Obama policy a RACIST.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

Also, the Papadopoulos fictional tale is unraveling. Mifsud, a key player, the alleged Russian spy, who supposedly informed Papadopoulos that Russia had HRC's missing emails is denying he is a Russian spy and the conversation about emails ever took place. http://www.ilfoglio.it/esteri/2019/0...iagate-251507/ [need to translate]

Mifsud also claims he was told to meet Papadopoulos by ex-PM Scotti .The Italian press ic overing this story while, US. msm is ignoring the story.

We have just had an independent council by a respected bipartisan public investigator......at least before he issued his report, publish his abbreviated conclusions.

That is the issue at hand. So far all these allegations are as I just said....

.

Btw, that is BOXCARIAN VERSION

[davew]

Originally Posted by fast4522

They do not want to go there, what is coming to light is the intelligence community leaked bogus story's then used those bogus story's to obtain FISA warrants. Attacking the Attorney general of these United States to suppress his office from uncovering all of their tracks, that are slowly now being uncovered. When "fruit of the poisonous tree" comes into play not only will people go to jail but cases will be overturned.

Many of the Russian 'contacts' are turning out to be connected to UK, Australia, Italian and other country secret service spy organization. The left loony conspiracy fraud is unraveling.

[Show Me the Wire]

Quoted by hcap

We checked with 11 legal experts to nail down answers. Essentially all of these experts agreed that obstruction can indeed be prosecuted without an underlying crime — and has been in the past, notably in the case of Martha Stewart.

For the love of everything that is sacred about our Constitution and our rights stop pushing this false agenda about obstruction.

To clarify and I cannot make this any clearer. First if you ask any knowledgeable attorney, if a person can be found guilty for obstruction, even if no underlying crime is committed. The answer is yes. If you asked me I would say yes. And I have said yes.

However, the existence or non-existence of an underlying crime is not the determining factor to be guilty of obstruction.

There are other factors, such as nexus and intent. Notice I used the word "and". The word "and" is a conjunction. A conjunction is used to connect words and phrases. Using the word "and" means the words "nexus" and "intent" are joined together, meaning both elements need to be present.

The quoted example of Martha Stewart's case is completely different from the President's situation.

Stewart lied directly to the FBI, while knowing about the investigation into the reason the stock transaction.

You and everyone else should be happy the AG is not trying to erode our rights not to be persecuted (yes, I said persecuted, because that is what it would be a persecution) for actions that do not amount to crimes. The actions I am referring to actions that do not amount to obstruction.

You should be careful for what you are wishing for.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

How convenient. The equivalent of calling someone who criticized Obama policy a RACIST.

What"s convenient is shifting the discussuiion away from an actual major report t unfounded conspiracy theories. Ok guys, get you Trumplican senators to have your Trumplican atty general to appoint a special prosecutor.

20 months from now we can discuss that report.

[Show Me the Wire]

Okay hcap, now that you hopefully understand what is needed to prove the crime of obstruction we can have a discussion.

What fact in Mueller's report demonstrates the President knew or believed, he personally was under investigation? The fact he knew other people maybe under investigation is not a determinative factor, unless he warned the other people about the investigation, so they could take actions to thwart the investigation.

What fact in Mueller's report demonstrates the President actually warned other person's about an investigation into their actions and the actions did these persons take to thwart the investigation?