Golf

[raybo]

I have started this thread, at the request of Tape Reader, to discuss, IMO, the most addictive, most difficult, and most enjoyable game in existence, the game of golf.

[sonnyp]

Originally Posted by raybo

I have started this thread, at the request of Tape Reader, to discuss, IMO, the most addictive, most difficult, and most enjoyable game in existence, the game of golf.

allow me to get the controversy started. i'm thrilled you called it a game. i've argued my whole life, golf is just that, a game and not a sport.

ok....let's hear it

[raybo]

Originally Posted by sonnyp

allow me to get the controversy started. i'm thrilled you called it a game. i've argued my whole life, golf is just that, a game and not a sport.

ok....let's hear it

Well, having been an athlete all my life, and a 3 sport letterman in high school, I never knew what a real "sport" was until I discovered golf.

So, I will not argue with you, been there done that. This thread is about golf, game or sport, it really makes no difference when you come right down to it.

[Tape Reader]

Thank you raybo.

I have a high handicap, but I am an optimist. When I saw your idea of same length shafts, I knew that: "this is the one that was going to make me a scratch golfer" (smiling).

I would very much enjoy to hear other player's ideas on this wonderful game, and especially, ingenuity like yours.

Tape Reader

[sonnyp]

ok, didn't mean to offend. always had fun with this debate.

what about golf are you looking to discuss ?

[Relwob Owner]

Originally Posted by sonnyp

ok, didn't mean to offend. always had fun with this debate.

what about golf are you looking to discuss ?

I didnt think it was offensive at all Sonny, but is a pretty common question/perception. I think that in order to realize how hard it is, you have to play it a lot. Tons of hand eye coordination, strength, timing, and mental toughness required. Not as much athleticism as some other sports but definitely a sport IMO.

[Golf and Horses]

You don't have to be an athlete to play golf...but if you watch the pro's golf swings...it is most definitely an athletic move...does that qualify it as a sport? Don't know and don't care. I love to play and can't play enough. Now that the weather is starting to cooperate around here...I will be hitting the course every opportunity I get. Raybo is right...it is VERY addicting!!! I've been addicted since 1980!!!

[sonnyp]

Originally Posted by Relwob Owner

I didnt think it was offensive at all Sonny, but is a pretty common question/perception. I think that in order to realize how hard it is, you have to play it a lot. Tons of hand eye coordination, strength, timing, and mental toughness required. Not as much athleticism as some other sports but definitely a sport IMO.

oh, i know it's very, very difficult. i would love to get into the pros and cons of it being a game or sport but it seems the OP didn't want the thread to go in that direction.

perhaps we'll start another thread to address those thoughts ?

[raybo]

Originally Posted by Tape Reader

Thank you raybo.

I have a high handicap, but I am an optimist. When I saw your idea of same length shafts, I knew that: "this is the one that was going to make me a scratch golfer" (smiling).

I would very much enjoy to hear other player's ideas on this wonderful game, and especially, ingenuity like yours.

Tape Reader

No problem. I love talking about golf, almost as much as playing it.

Like horse racing, I was a "student of the game" from the very beginning. I think the best book on golf I ever read was either by, or about, Ben Hogan. His idea of "swinging inside a barrel" or "swinging around a central axis", something like that, really hit home. Also, I think it was Snead who said that the swing starts with the shoulders, not with the hands. Anyway, the 2 principals go hand in hand.

Starting the swing with the shoulders, and resisting that rotation with the rest of your body, not only keeps your body rotation "inside the barrel" but also creates tension in your entire body, like a coiled spring. The shoulders start the coiling action, forcing the rest of the body to rotate around that central axis, like a pole driven down through your head and out between your feet. As your shoulders rotate, the arms, hands and club, move with them, in one piece, all resisting the urge to move independently, tension must be kept in the arms wrists and hands, thus, all moving "in one piece". Then the upper body begins to rotate, forced by your shoulder rotation, next the waist begins to rotate, then the hips, and the upper legs. The weight of your arms, hands and club, cause the needed weight shift to your back foot, forcing more weight on the inside of your front foot, than on the outside, forcing your heel to lift slightly off the turf. As your arms follow your shoulders, they reach a point where, either they have to stop or the elbows must begin to "unstraighten" or bend. Your head is the last thing to rotate, and you must resist allowing your head to turn too much, basically looking down at the ball, in line with your front shoulder. Once that point is reached, the backswing is over.

So, you started your backswing, "from the top", with your shoulders.

The downswing, reversely, starts from the bottom, with your front foot, specifically, the heel of that front foot. Force that heel back down to the turf. This starts the "uncoiling" motion, it starts the release of all that tension in your body. The forcing of the front heel back down, causes weight to start shifting toward that front foot, causing the front knee to move towards the target, but not rotating, more like a sidewards flex of the knee. This causes the upper leg to start rotating back toward the target, which causes the hips to start rotating, then the waist, then the upper body, and finally the shoulders. And, with the shoulders rotating, your upper arms are forced to follow, then the lower arms, the wrists, the hands, and finally the club.

It's like popping a whip, centrifugal force causes ever increasing speed as the whip uncoils, resulting in tremendous speed by the time the uncoiling reaches the stinger on the end of the whip. The uncoiling of the downswing, by the time the uncoiling of the legs, hips, trunk, shoulders, arms and hands, reaches the head of the club (the shaft is also uncoiling due to the flex built into the shafts), the head of the club is moving extremely fast.

And all you did was start a rotation, resist it, then release it. You didn't have to "muscle" anything, on the contrary, you resisted with your muscles.

All this rotation, coiling, and tension buildup, if done in the correct order, keeps your body "inside the barrel" and your body position regarding the ball and the target, in proper position, allowing crisp ball striking, and a full follow through, with your stomach facing the target at the finish of the swing, while your eyes have never left the ball, until the ball is gone, only then should you allow your head to rotate to the target. Unless you are playing alone, you needn't worry about seeing the ball in flight, someone else is watching it for you, and besides, if your swing is correct, when you do look forward, you'll immediately pick up the ball in flight.

[Jay Trotter]

Thanks for starting this thread raybo! Most excellent!

To sonnyp, oh, it's a sport all right. So, boo to you sir!

For some it can be an "activity" but when you take it up a couple notches it most definately is a sport. It's also as addictive as drugs and alcohol; or handicapping for that matter.

I was blessed to take up the game around the age of 10 and had the pleasure of equalling par just once in my lifetime! Still looking to break par just once and to score that elusive hole-in-one.

I'll leave you with one of my favorite golf routines:

ROBIN WILLIAMS ON GOLF

Language Warning

***

[sonnyp]

To sonnyp, oh, it's a sport all right. So, boo to you sir!


i try to leave but you keep dragging back in.

bowling,pool,curling,croquet ......sport ?

[raybo]

Tape Reader,

Well, I can't promise you that equal length clubs will make you a scratch golfer, but, as I stated in the previous thread, once you gain the fundamentals of the golf swing, I can guarantee you that equal length clubs will take strokes off your game at an alarming rate.

Once you know how to swing the club, the main thing that keeps players from drastically improving their game, is the fact that they must take a different setup position for every club in their bag. When you move the ball farther away or closer to your feet, the angle of your swing, or swing plane, changes. The swing plane is flatter with the longer clubs and steeper with the shorter clubs. This means your posture must change in order to attain the proper swing plane.

Let's say that the 7 iron is the club that you hit best, of all your irons. When hitting from a level surface the body posture, the angle of the back, shoulders, and arms, etc., are comfortable for you. That's why you hit it so well, usually. The ball is at the right distance from your feet and slightly back towards your back foot. This causes the club head to contact the ball before the ground, a "crisp" strike of the ball.

So, let's say you just hit that 7 iron and it went right where you wanted it to go, but a little short of the green.

So, you now need to hit a wedge from 20 yards off the green. You can forget about being comfortable, like with the 7 iron shot. Now the club is shorter, making you move the ball closer to your feet. This increases the swing plane angle, meaning you must swing with a more "upright" posture. There went you comfort. Because your swing is more upright, or vertical, you will have a tendency to hit the ground sooner than with a flatter swing plane. This means that in order to prevent hitting the ball "fat" (the ground before the ball), you have to move the ball even farther back in your stance, more towards your right foot.

So, simply by changing clubs, you have installed 4 significant additional variables into your swing, less comfort, closer address to the ball, a more vertical swing plane, and the ball farther back in your stance. That's 4 more things you have to get right in order to strike the ball as well as you did with the 7 iron. Don't you have enough on your plate already, without making things even more complex?

With equal length clubs, on an even surface, you use exactly the same address, ball placement, and swing plane with every club. Oh, and don't forget about comfort. If you're comfortable with one club, you'll also be comfortable with all the other clubs. You swing them all exactly the same.

As I said, I didn't think up the idea of equal length clubs, I was just one of the few players that thought they made logical sense, and switched to them. Best golfing decision I've ever made, bar none!

[Equusludius]

First time poster... longtime horseplayer and avid golfer ( 8 hcp)... here is a good link regarding the perfect golfswing...

http://www.videojug.com/film/how-to-...ect-golf-swing


hope we can learn and pick up tips from each other....

one of my fav. courses to play on .. Revere Golf Club/ Lexintong Course
Hole 11 ....a tough 625 yds par5 ...

to get to this view on the pic.. gotta drive 275 but its a downward drive and the fairways are tight... just hope theres no wind... now you are lookin uphill at about 290/310 to center green... lay up with a 7/8 iron.. to about 125yd marker.. bring your gap wedge/wedge... aim for the center of the green (water on the back and left side) dble tiered green (27 yds long) and do not hit short ...false front... and it will roll into a deep and steep bunker...

2 putt and be happy with a par...

now thats a challenge and what makes golf a great game...

[TJDave]

Originally Posted by sonnyp

allow me to get the controversy started. i'm thrilled you called it a game. i've argued my whole life, golf is just that, a game and not a sport.

Something about only bullfighting, motor racing and mountaineering being real sports.

[Pace Cap'n]

Could a touring pro use a set of clubs such as yours?