Religion II

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey

Agreed...but a controversy looms over what constitutes redemption and the nature and meaning of eternity, a concept quite beyond the understanding of mere mortals...

..we, if fact, have no real understanding of what “eternity” or for that matter, “infinity” means...that also holds true for rather bizarre, and totally abstract concepts like “omniscience” “omnipresence” “omnipotent” “everlasting”, “all-caring, all-loving”, etc...

...there is no evidence for any of those...they are just “magical” terms flung around and everybody nods their heads as if they understand these “pseudo-concepts”...so when anyone uses those terms as supposed attributes of some imagined deity...how can anything but confusion and error arise....?

It is God who gives understanding (Ps 119:130). After one humbles himself, understanding is the first thing he should seek so that he can understand God's revelation to mankind.

Part of Paul's indictment of mankind in Romans 3:9ff. two is that "no one understands"!

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Ohh...you're waxing like Dickie Poo Dawkins today. A little angry are you?

Angry? Not at all. I'm having a great time.

Originally Posted by boxcar

Again, I don't have to read all the religions or dumb philosophies to know that biblical Christianity is totally unique --

Again, what's that got to do with anything? Plus, if Christianity is unique then Calvinism is the same as Catholicism.

Originally Posted by boxcar

... if any of the other religions or philosophies had a really urgent message to share with the world that was also incredibly great news, their evangelistic efforts would be widely known.

Atheism fits the bill. We have a really urgent message and our "evangelistic" efforts are widely known.

We call ourselves "the movement" and we are winning.

• At the turn of the century surveys said that atheists made up about 2% of the population. Today that number is up to 5%.
  
• Fifty years ago almost everyone went to church. Today only one in five professed Christians attend church with any regularity.
  
  Example: a church in my community has a membership made up entirely of senior citizens. When the last of them dies the church will be converted to a homeless shelter.
  
• Forced prayer in public schools has been outlawed.
  
• The Ten Commandments have been removed from public buildings.
  
• The teaching of creationism in public schools has been outlawed. Evolution is the law of the land.

America is not a Christian nation. It is an agnostic nation. So says the Constitution.

Here's the incredibly great news. You don't have to waste the one life you have to live trembling in fear of an imaginary omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, omnisadistic being. That being does not exist.

Boxcar refuses to think. He's afraid to think because he fears that the imaginary being can hear his thoughts. He afraid to read any book that might present any idea that would tempt him to think. He lives in fear. My great message is that no one has to live in fear. At least not in fear of that.

[VigorsTheGrey]

What god gives is a mixed bag, sowing both understanding and confusion, the lord of both realms. He is both ways at the same time and speaks with forked tongue...who can know his ways...who can sound his depths...? A bottomless hole above and below filled full with fallen minds...

[Buckeye]

That's really deep.

Take no position on any position?

Back to your Father the Devil and ask him "What should I say?"

[Buckeye]

"My great message is that no one has to live in fear."

Right, don't live in fear of God.

I'm almost sure He will bow down to you.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Angry? Not at all. I'm having a great time.

Again, what's that got to do with anything? Plus, if Christianity is unique then Calvinism is the same as Catholicism.

Atheism fits the bill. We have a really urgent message and our "evangelistic" efforts are widely known.

We call ourselves "the movement" and we are winning.

• At the turn of the century surveys said that atheists made up about 2% of the population. Today that number is up to 5%.
  
• Fifty years ago almost everyone went to church. Today only one in five professed Christians attend church with any regularity.
  
  Example: a church in my community has a membership made up entirely of senior citizens. When the last of them dies the church will be converted to a homeless shelter.
  
• Forced prayer in public schools has been outlawed.
  
• The Ten Commandments have been removed from public buildings.
  
• The teaching of creationism in public schools has been outlawed. Evolution is the law of the land.

America is not a Christian nation. It is an agnostic nation. So says the Constitution.

Here's the incredibly great news. You don't have to waste the one life you have to live trembling in fear of an imaginary omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, omnisadistic being. That being does not exist.

Boxcar refuses to think. He's afraid to think because he fears that the imaginary being can hear his thoughts. He afraid to read any book that might present any idea that would tempt him to think. He lives in fear. My great message is that no one has to live in fear. At least not in fear of that.

You didn't sound so happy in your last post. You sounded like a rebellious, fist-shaking, angry, atheistic fool. "The fool says in his heart there is no God".

Calvinism and Catholicism!? Are you mad? The two are like oil and water.
Protestantism in general has less in common with Catholicism than we have in common.

And, yes, the godless are winning battles here and battles there and battles somewhere else. But the war will be won by Christ. That's what counts.

Furthermore, what is going on in the world is but the signs of the times that are described in scripture. These last days are not going to be pretty.

Prove God doesn't exist. I know he exists. You can, too, but you don't want to know him. That's the wonderful and miraculous thing about God's gifts -- they, too, are as unique as the gift-giver.

Heb 11:1
1 Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.
NIV

Kool, huh?

P.S. And I live in no fear (at least not the kind you describe), for "perfect love casts out all fear" (1Jn 4:18).

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey

What god gives is a mixed bag, sowing both understanding and confusion, the lord of both realms. He is both ways at the same time and speaks with forked tongue...who can know his ways...who can sound his depths...? A bottomless hole above and below filled full with fallen minds...

Yes, behold the kindness and severity of God -- all at once and simultaneously. However, the objects of both are not in the same relationship with God; therefore, there is no contradiction. God indeed sows confusion among his rebellious enemies; while also showing kindness and mercy and goodness to all those who love Him. The former group is the object of his justice, while the latter is the object of grace.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

"The fool says in his heart there is no God".

Ad hominem! Perhaps the oldest ad hominem ever.

Originally Posted by boxcar

Calvinism and Catholicism!? Are you mad? The two are like oil and water.

You said it, not me.

Originally Posted by boxcar

And, yes, the godless are winning battles here and battles there and battles somewhere else. But the war will be won by Christ. That's what counts.

Consider the source. You are being told this by people who stand to make money off your gullibility.

Originally Posted by boxcar

Prove God doesn't exist. I know he exists.

Fallacy of the untestable hypothesis! You can't prove it. Neither can you prove that there is (or is not) a teapot orbiting the sun between Earth and Mars.

[Buckeye]

Excuse me for asking, but is God on this Forum?

I didn't think so.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Ad hominem! Perhaps the oldest ad hominem ever.

You said it, not me.

Consider the source. You are being told this by people who stand to make money off your gullibility.

Fallacy of the untestable hypothesis! You can't prove it. Neither can you prove that there is (or is not) a teapot orbiting the sun between Earth and Mars.

You're absolutely right about the oldest "ad hominen. King David existed long before me, which goes to show that atheists must have existed in his day too.

And what I'm "being told" is right out of the bible. And all those writers are dead, so I'm not worried about them fleecing me. The bible is my number one go-to source for all matters of the Faith and rule for living.

No, I can't prove what I know to be true. Another irony and paradox; for I have the witness of the truth within me, since it is the Spirit of the Living God who bears witness with my spirit (Rom 8:16). Therefore, I know what I know and can be very certain of it, whereas you can never be certain of anything in this life. Unfortunately for you, however, is that if die in your unrepentant state, your skepticism will not follow you to the grave. At that time, you ,too will be certain of something -- what a fool you were in this life.

[VigorsTheGrey]

Originally Posted by boxcar

You're absolutely right about the oldest "ad hominen. King David existed long before me, which goes to show that atheists must have existed in his day too.

And what I'm "being told" is right out of the bible. And all those writers are dead, so I'm not worried about them fleecing me. The bible is my number one go-to source for all matters of the Faith and rule for living.

No, I can't prove what I know to be true. Another irony and paradox; for I have the witness of the truth within me, since it is the Spirit of the Living God who bears witness with my spirit (Rom 8:16). Therefore, I know what I know and can be very certain of it, whereas you can never be certain of anything in this life. Unfortunately for you, however, is that if die in your unrepentant state, your skepticism will not follow you to the grave. At that time, you ,too will be certain of something -- what a fool you were in this life.

So the pay off for you is the certainly that the grave will not be the end of you personally...? Is that it.?

[Buckeye]

My best guess is none of us will get out of here alive.

Next case.

[VigorsTheGrey]

Originally Posted by Buckeye

My best guess is none of us will get out of here alive.

Next case.

Oh no...! Boxcar most certainly will...this is exactly my point...that Boxcar feels that humility is square one for redemption...and yet, he lacks the basic human humility to admit that he also is going the way of all flesh, of everything that has or ever will, live on this earth...he’s different, special, he’s Saved from that final nasty little detail of our lives...our very own MORTALITY...he actually thinks that he is going to live FOREVER...in fact, I would venture to say that he is certain of this and his entire being is enthralled by that “fact”..

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey

So the pay off for you is the certainly that the grave will not be the end of you personally...? Is that it.?

Absolutely. Jesus defeated death and the devil who had the power of death. Because I'm in Christ, I will not only not suffer the second death (eternal damnation) but will be raised up to have a glorified body just like his, and spend eternity in the New Earth that will be encompassed by Edenic glory.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Buckeye

My best guess is none of us will get out of here alive.

Next case.

In terms of this life, you're almost 100% correct. Those believers who are blessed to be alive upon Christ's return will be raptured to meet him in the air.