The Skeptical Handicapper by Barry Meadow is Great!!

[headhawg]

Originally Posted by Light

I'd rather nobody cares. I didn't want to talk about the P6's because I don't want anyone bothering me about it. I don;t need to work another day in my life.

But why is Meadows putting out a book? Why do losers sell their systems? To make money from the losing methods they peddle. If they made money from them like me, they would never dream of sharing it with anyone.

So I hope your happy Tom with those worn out losing methods that you defend so vehemently. And believe me I am not interested in enlightening you or anyone. Losers like you are good for me.

You want to rethink your position on "letting go of [my] stupidity" for calling you an arrogant ass? If you're smart enough -- or in a higher state of consciousness -- you would. But we know what to expect from you...just a lot of fantasy talk about your scores, and a lot of know-it-all posts which amount to zip.

[ReplayRandall]

Originally Posted by Light

I'd rather nobody cares. I didn't want to talk about the P6's because I don't want anyone bothering me about it. I don;t need to work another day in my life.

This post of yours is a put-on, right?....

This is just to push buttons, no?

Who can take anything you say as beneficial?

Quit wasting our time with nonsense like this...you should know better.

[Nitro]

After reading through this entire thread, I couldn’t resist commenting. It seems obvious that there are those here that would rather personally attack someone who offers seemingly legitimate thoughts instead of advancing views of their own about this book. I see it as an overly simplistic means of avoiding real discussion on the topic at hand. Instead, they’re suggesting that the opinions presented are worthless based on biased judgements of a person’s so-called credibility. This is absolutely BS on a forum and probably one of the major reasons why so many members refuse to get involved.

So where are the infamous moderators? They should in my mind be trying to maintain an open-minded venue for anyone to voice an opinion on a subject, rather than allowing the attempts to discredit and verbally abuse those who offer their personal opinions.

Could it be that they believe that unrestricted personal confrontation on threads like this is a means to stimulate a forums activities in a positive way?

Light and I have certainly expressed our differences on various topics in the past, but in this case, I would like to at least congratulate him on standing his ground on what he believes to be true about this book. Unfortunately I can’t say the same about others simply because they never offered opposing opinions, or even responded to some very basic questions. No, instead they found it more plausible and even pleasurable to enlighten us as to how they feel about the person offering some sentiments.

Listen, (and I hope I can speak for some others around here) we don’t care about your personal feelings or vendettas about other members. In case you're interested, expressing yourself in that manner openly depletes your own integrity.
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[Jeff P]

About a year before the book was written Barry called me one day and said he had an idea for a handicapping book.

He told me his motivation for writing a handicapping book wasn't to make money.

He was very clear about that.

He said that even if he only cleared twenty dollars after publishing costs he still wanted to write the book.

Barry then explained his real motivation for writing the book:

One of the weaknesses with every handicapping book he ever read was the authors only validated the handicapping ideas and methods presented in their work with a small number of (sometimes cherry picked) races.

He wanted to write a book where the handicapping ideas presented were validated by sizeable data samples.

I told him I thought that was a great idea.

He asked me if I could help out by running some data samples.

Knowing I never have free time but wanting to help out I said "Sure, why not?"

A few weeks later he sent me a list of data samples he needed me to run.

It took me a few days.

I squeezed most of them in between midnight and two am.

But I got them done and emailed them back to him.

A few days later he sent me another list of data samples. A few days later another after that.

I ran them for another week or so and even pulled a couple of all-nighters.

But the list of data samples were piling up faster than I could run them. It was more than just executing simple sql queries and pasting the query results into a Word Doc.

Most of the data samples required me to do special coding and add new tables and new columns to a database before I could generate what he needed. It was taking a lot more time than I envisioned going in.

And I had become a wreck. Three or four hours of sleep for days on end had turned me into a wreck.

Other areas of my life were taking a hit and I knew what I had to do.

Which was bow out.

I'm really glad Ken Massa stepped up. Knowing what I was going through I can only imagine what Ken must have gone through.

Ken Massa really deserves a tip of the hat from horseplayers everywhere.

And I'm really glad Barry got it written.

Whatever else you might think about the book know this:

Barry's motivation wasn't money.

He knew going in whatever he might clear was going to be a pittance compared to the effort put forth and the sheer number of hours.

His motivation was wanting to write a book where the ideas presented were backed up by data.

Imo, he did that and then some.

A year or so before he decided to write the book Barry invited a small group of players and myself over to his place.

We spent a wonderful afternoon out on his back patio with live video of the day's races (if I recall correctly TVG and RTN) streaming in the background talking about anything and everything under the sun including handicapping, making oddslines, and betting.

What I'm about to say is from the gut, and something I'll only say about a small handful of horseplayers:

Barry is the real deal.

When it comes to handicapping and betting Barry knows his shit.


-jp

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[thaskalos]

About 30 years ago I subscribed to Barry Meadow's newsletter. I had a question about something that he had written there and I called the phone number that he had provided in the newsletter so I could get clarification on some handicapping issue. I had no idea that the phone number was for Barry's home, and I called somewhat late in the evening. After patiently talking to me for about 20 minutes he politely informed me that he had been in the middle of having dinner...and that he would be more than willing to continue explaining things to me if I could call him the next day at a more convenient time.

Not only is Barry Meadow the "real deal" as far as gambling is concerned, but he is also one classy guy. Which counts for a lot more, IMO.

[ReplayRandall]

Originally Posted by Nitro

Listen, (and I hope I can speak for some others around here) we don’t care about your personal feelings or vendettas about other members. In case you're interested, expressing yourself in that manner openly depletes your own integrity.
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You speak for no one except yourself....Integrity??....

[thaskalos]

Let me explain further about "class", and the lack thereof.

Even before I bought a place in Las Vegas, I would travel there several times a year...and I would spend considerable time at the Gambler's Book Shop there, which in the pre-Amazon era used to be the Mecca of all published gambling material. During one of my visits at that bookstore about 20 years ago, I bought all the poker books that were written by David Sklansky and Mason Malmuth...who were the most famous poker co-authors at that particular time. I don't remember how many books there were...but the cost was about $200.

When I got to the register...Howard Schwartz, the owner of the store, who knew me at that time, told me that Mason Malmuth was in the store at that particular time. He called Mason Malmuth over and said to him in front of me:

"Hey Mason. This is a good customer of mine and he is buying $200 worth of your books. Why don't you sign one of them for him?"

Mason Malmuth, the renouned "poker authority", gave me a condescending look and told Howard: "Sorry...I don't give aotographs." And he went back to his book browsing.

Howard Schwartz looked at me in shock and apologized to me for putting me through that. "I can't believe that he wouldn't sign a book for you after you spent $200 on his books. If I were you I would put the books back"...Howard told me.

And I was taught once and for all that "class" was harder to come by than gambling expertise.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by Jeff P

One of the weaknesses with every handicapping book he ever read was the authors only validated the handicapping ideas and methods presented in their work with a small number of (sometimes cherry picked) races.

He wanted to write a book where the handicapping ideas presented were validated by sizeable data samples.

This is an underappreciated insight.

Before personal computers and databases were more common, people learned by experience, trial and error, and/or a lot of intense but limited manual study.

As a result, many handicapping books inevitably contain the personal biases of the author and some incorrect ideas that got passed on and on.

That's good and bad news.

The good news is that means a lot of incorrect ideas are still floating around and impacting the odds board.

The bad news is that if most of your own thinking and methodology comes from books or other handicappers that got most of their insights from books, you are probably wrong about some if the things you are confident you are right about.

I never read this book, but imo the goal was certainly a good one. The goal should be to change "I have a theory" and "I think" to "This is what the data says".

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by Nitro

So where are the infamous moderators?

You're like an injured bird...unable to fly away...I for one weep for you.

Will that make you feel better?

[Nitro]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

You're like an injured bird...unable to fly away...I for one weep for you.

Will that make you feel better?

Am I surprised by your inappropriate response? Certainly not!
Instead of discerning the response patterns I previously mentioned, you mimic them yourself. Just a suggestion, but why not try dealing with some corrective criticism as a grown-up.

As difficult as it might be, kindly keep your whimpering to yourself because this bird will never fly over the cuckoo’s nest.

[Light]

Originally Posted by Tom

Thanks, Thask.
I am proud to say I've learned a few things from you over the years.
A loser is someone who thinks they already know everything.

4.4 out of 5......88%
I'd say more than me found the book worthwhile.

Isn't it ironic that 88% liked the book and that is very close to the percentage that lose everyday at the track. Popularity doesn't mean it will make you a dime.

[CheckMark]

Originally Posted by Light

Isn't it ironic that 88% liked the book and that is very close to the percentage that lose everyday at the track. Popularity doesn't mean it will make you a dime.

No but you turning a simple thread into a 9 page comical showdown with users of this forum is apparently popular nowadays

[Light]

Originally Posted by Nitro

Light and I have certainly expressed our differences on various topics in the past, but in this case, I would like to at least congratulate him on standing his ground on what he believes to be true about this book. Unfortunately I can’t say the same about others simply because they never offered opposing opinions, or even responded to some very basic questions. No, instead they found it more plausible and even pleasurable to enlighten us as to how they feel about the person offering some sentiments.


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I appreciate that when we disagreed, we kept to the issue rather than being reduced to unnecessary name calling as displayed by some here.

[Light]

Originally Posted by Jeff P

Barry is the real deal.

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Not only is Barry Meadow the "real deal" as far as gambling is concerned...

I'm sure Barry is the real deal. But his book is not.

[Light]

Originally Posted by CheckMark

No but you turning a simple thread into a 9 page comical showdown with users of this forum is apparently popular nowadays

I'm glad you find it "comical". When people get so serious that they practically want to kill you for a difference of opinion, it makes me wonder if I'm talking to handicappers or to insane asylum qualifiers.