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10-24-2020, 11:26 AM
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#226
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA.
Posts: 7,464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burnsy
It’s obvious that this horse is fast but has skin and/or joint problems. That’s the second time she’s been popped for drugs that cover inflammation issues. Bafferts ego and ambition seems to cloud his judgement. But it’s beyond him too. Because this horse has the talent they’ll breed her and most likely pass the problem down the line. Justify obviously had issues too but they’ll breed the crap out of him. Thus, the cycle will continue. I’m not a doctor but I understand the motivation of money and prestige. The life quality and health of the breed is being neglected at the horses, fans and bettors expense. Damn the health , a fast horse even for a few races can equal a whole lot of dollars...... spread around the industry. There’s a good reason this guy gets a pass so many times. Others “in line” are on this gravy train too. Connect the dots, follow the money. Yeah, these horses are fast but stamina, soundness and longevity have left the picture. And you have industry insiders and turf writers that try to deny this. Just look at what’s been going on for years. Gee, why are groups and the govt. up our ass????? They say. It’s just maddening.
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Very true. As for the press, years ago the turf writers would have applied more scrutiny because you had strong racing coverage in all of the major newspapers. Now, most of the turf writers work for publishers that need the ad money from the actual industry, breeders, etc. Their hands are tied now.
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10-24-2020, 01:37 PM
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#227
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
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I wish everyone used hay oats and water. Until then this is just par the sport.
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10-25-2020, 02:41 AM
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#228
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pandy
Very true. As for the press, years ago the turf writers would have applied more scrutiny because you had strong racing coverage in all of the major newspapers. Now, most of the turf writers work for publishers that need the ad money from the actual industry, breeders, etc. Their hands are tied now.
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This too.
I have said before that track and field is one of my other favorite sports. And it has the exact same problem. The media that covers the big meets are all in the tank. They can't say anything, and don't.
Almost all the big doping stories come from journalists who do not regularly cover the sport and often don't totally understand it. Which makes it easy for insiders to pick holes in the coverage. But that doesn't mean it isn't true.
Last edited by dilanesp; 10-25-2020 at 02:44 AM.
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10-25-2020, 04:40 AM
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#229
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 3,641
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dilanesp
This too.
I have said before that track and field is one of my other favorite sports. And it has the exact same problem. The media that covers the big meets are all in the tank. They can't say anything, and don't.
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All of this really speaks to a larger problem, and that is instead of working to make things better, the society seems to be filled with "antis" who want to ban everything they've been propagandized about. So not wanting to add to the already burgeoning quantity of that, you've got the knee-jerkers on the other side furiously sweeping stuff under the rug.
The correct way to handle these things is to admit there are problems, then SHOW in your every word and action that you're trying to clean things up.
Instead, we're just on a see-saw. You go up, they go down. You go down, they go up. Nothing at all gets done because the goal is to spank and embarass, not to actually improve anything.....and then as everyone reaches the edge of the cliff, it becomes almost life-and-death to fight back against bans, so everyone doubles-down on the already dysfunctional dynamic that is going on. .
Last edited by clicknow; 10-25-2020 at 04:45 AM.
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10-25-2020, 08:00 AM
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#230
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,803
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10-25-2020, 10:46 AM
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#231
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 3,822
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clicknow
All of this really speaks to a larger problem, and that is instead of working to make things better, the society seems to be filled with "antis" who want to ban everything they've been propagandized about. So not wanting to add to the already burgeoning quantity of that, you've got the knee-jerkers on the other side furiously sweeping stuff under the rug.
The correct way to handle these things is to admit there are problems, then SHOW in your every word and action that you're trying to clean things up.
Instead, we're just on a see-saw. You go up, they go down. You go down, they go up. Nothing at all gets done because the goal is to spank and embarass, not to actually improve anything.....and then as everyone reaches the edge of the cliff, it becomes almost life-and-death to fight back against bans, so everyone doubles-down on the already dysfunctional dynamic that is going on. .
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I guess I must have missed all of this in the past 50 years of racing, but what bans? There have been thousands of drug test positives, thousands of excuses, and a handful of trainers have actually been punished past a slap on the wrist. Dutrow, and then Servis and Navarro (which took an undercover federal sting operation). A few other more minor figures also took a fall, but had to cheat so blatantly that it couldn't be ignored.
I guess I'm confused whose goals it is to "spank and embarrass"----the "antis"? Posts like yours are so frustrating because you're laboring mightily to make some political point when there is none. 99.9% of this is trainers and owners illegally drugging their horses, and 0.1% of the time someone actually gets punished. The rest gets swept under the rug for the "good of the game".
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10-25-2020, 10:55 AM
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#232
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 20,615
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I'm not a vet and know less than nothing about these drugs and treatments, but it seems to me like there are two distinct problems.
1. Guys that are using illegal drugs or methods to enhance performance that in most cases the labs can't find in tests (yet?).
2. Guys that are using any and all legal treatments to gain an edge but in some cases irresponsibly. That's what results in their positives.
__________________
"Unlearning is the highest form of learning"
Last edited by classhandicapper; 10-25-2020 at 10:57 AM.
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10-25-2020, 01:33 PM
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#233
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dilanesp
I have said before that track and field is one of my other favorite sports. And it has the exact same problem. The media that covers the big meets are all in the tank. They can't say anything, and don't.
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Let me add NASCAR to this pile.
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10-25-2020, 05:42 PM
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#234
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Sartin Methodology Fan
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Earth
Posts: 328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by classhandicapper
I'm not a vet and know less than nothing about these drugs and treatments, but it seems to me like there are two distinct problems.
1. Guys that are using illegal drugs or methods to enhance performance that in most cases the labs can't find in tests (yet?).
2. Guys that are using any and all legal treatments to gain an edge but in some cases irresponsibly. That's what results in their positives.
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It is definitely this one.
__________________
"And there they go! It's Toupée going on ahead, Long Underwear has fallen behind, Toothpaste is being squeezed out on the rail as Banana joins the bunch, and Cabbage is trailing by a head."
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10-25-2020, 05:57 PM
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#235
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clean money
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 23,559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic Parakeet
It is definitely this one.
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yea.
and - "Guys that are using illegal drugs or methods to enhance performance that in most cases the labs can't find in tests (yet?)."
- "Guys that are using any and all legal treatments to gain an edge but in some cases irresponsibly. That's what results in their positives."
- #3 BOTH!!!
"#1" is harder for a naïve person or fan or official to see. And a lot easier to 'break your neck' and 'look the other way' as an 'elephant in the room'.
"#2" is over-reaching(by a trainer) and unnecessarily sloppy. Especially, if "#1" is bringing you a multi-million dollar return.
However, the standards have to be consistent. You can't let overages slide. You also should communicate a 'grace-period' if you decide to suddenly start enforcing a picogram limit.
Then we can go back to pretending that "#1" isn't happening.
__________________
Preparation. Discipline. Patience. Decisiveness.
Last edited by Robert Fischer; 10-25-2020 at 06:05 PM.
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10-25-2020, 07:32 PM
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#236
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 518
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Asaro
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Wake me up when breeders in Kentucky stop profiting off it
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10-25-2020, 07:57 PM
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#237
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,803
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Turf_Monster
Wake me up when breeders in Kentucky stop profiting off it
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So true
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10-25-2020, 07:58 PM
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#238
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Sartin Methodology Fan
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Earth
Posts: 328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Fischer
yea.
and - "Guys that are using illegal drugs or methods to enhance performance that in most cases the labs can't find in tests (yet?)."
- "Guys that are using any and all legal treatments to gain an edge but in some cases irresponsibly. That's what results in their positives."
- #3 BOTH!!!
"#1" is harder for a naïve person or fan or official to see. And a lot easier to 'break your neck' and 'look the other way' as an 'elephant in the room'.
"#2" is over-reaching(by a trainer) and unnecessarily sloppy. Especially, if "#1" is bringing you a multi-million dollar return.
However, the standards have to be consistent. You can't let overages slide. You also should communicate a 'grace-period' if you decide to suddenly start enforcing a picogram limit.
Then we can go back to pretending that "#1" isn't happening.
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I would not doubt it would be your #3. Use something illegal to mask an overage of a legal one, and hope it either dilutes down the documented one -- and/or goes entirely undetected by race day. It's interesting how trainers are doubling as chemists these days.
__________________
"And there they go! It's Toupée going on ahead, Long Underwear has fallen behind, Toothpaste is being squeezed out on the rail as Banana joins the bunch, and Cabbage is trailing by a head."
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10-26-2020, 09:37 AM
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#239
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA.
Posts: 7,464
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With Baffert, I really do think the corruption is far spread and most likely involves payoffs. When those 7 horses dropped dead and the CHRB didn't fine or suspend him, at all, that was the telltale sign that they were in on it. And it's possible that it goes all the way to some of the breeders or other industry insiders as well. We're talking about hundreds of millions of dollars that Baffert and his owners have raked in during his career. The reason why the cartels are so successful is because they pay good money to make people look the other way. This could be similar.
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10-26-2020, 10:49 AM
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#240
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pandy
With Baffert, I really do think the corruption is far spread and most likely involves payoffs. When those 7 horses dropped dead and the CHRB didn't fine or suspend him, at all, that was the telltale sign that they were in on it. And it's possible that it goes all the way to some of the breeders or other industry insiders as well. We're talking about hundreds of millions of dollars that Baffert and his owners have raked in during his career. The reason why the cartels are so successful is because they pay good money to make people look the other way. This could be similar.
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And the Justify thing is absolutely clear that they are in on it.
Even if you believe, ultimately, that the medication Baffert used should have been legal, NOBODY but Baffert gets a SECRET hearing where they change the rule FOR HIM and the public isn't told.
If Joe Claiming Trainer gets that positive, MAYBE, he gets a lawyer and convinces the CHRB at an open hearing not to enforce the rule and suspend him. MAYBE.
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