Trainer kickbacks?

[Roy C]

Heard a couple days ago that a socal trainer was getting 5% of a jockeys 10% as a "fee" for riding him on his horses. I couldn't believe it and asked a friend who might know and he told me that it was commonly known that a top trainer in the midwest does it as well. Anyone hear of this?

[johnhannibalsmith]

I do recall a friend of mine blowing a relationship with a prominent trainer because he was miffed at having to pay the ransom to stay in the barn.

[46zilzal]

Riders have specific arrangements with their connections unique to them, so if things take place in that business arrangement, so be it.

[sonnyp]

in their heyday, john campbell and bill o'donnell so dominated harness racing, they began to charge 10 % rather than the usual 5 % to drive. i realize this is a flip of the situation originally mentioned, but it's along the same lines.

harness owners gladly paid the extra 5% to get one of them. i guess its a matter of what the market will bear. i dont think there rules or laws to prohibit individuals from setting their fees, you know the old supply and demand.

[lamboguy]

you just figured out what makes a jockey good or bad!

if you are a jock today you are not getting on big horses without some type of a working relationship with a trainer or an owner or a farm.

if you have a good horse at lower levels you got jock agents begging you to get on your horse. persoanlly i would never do kickbacks coming from both ends of the spectrum. i like to stick with the same jock as long as he gives me a legit ride.

[fromtheroof]

Asmussen has done that for years........

[Mineshaft]

Originally Posted by fromtheroof

Asmussen has done that for years........

Exactly and he still does it.


Cole Norman did it too.

[lamboguy]

i hate to say this, but for the injuries that a jockey could sustain they are underpaid. everysingle time they get on a horse their life is in danger. if i had my choice of being a jock or a punching bag for mohamed ali, i would rather be the punching bag.

[Dave Schwartz]

if i had my choice of being a jock or a punching bag for mohamed ali, i would rather be the punching bag.

Sure, you say that NOW...

[Brogan]

The interesting point to me is if the owners are aware of this arrangement? The jock's fee comes from the owner's account to begin with. The owner is already paying the trainer.

While maybe a somewhat common practice, its not sounding very ethical. A trainer could be using a less able jock, or one that just doesn't fit a particular horse well, just to get his little taste kicked back.

[johnhannibalsmith]

And the part that is being glossed over here is the role of the agent. In many of these cases, he/she's a central figure in the equation. It's the agent that is "contracted" to the barn and the rider is something of a contributing afterthought.

[Robert Goren]

Clyde Martin kicks back 100% to the trainer.

[lamboguy]

Originally Posted by Brogan

The interesting point to me is if the owners are aware of this arrangement? The jock's fee comes from the owner's account to begin with. The owner is already paying the trainer.

While maybe a somewhat common practice, its not sounding very ethical. A trainer could be using a less able jock, or one that just doesn't fit a particular horse well, just to get his little taste kicked back.

i agree with this 100%. i stopped selling horses in sales because that was what the sales turned out to be. if you didn't give the trainer a kickback, they wouldn't bid on your horse. that is why i now sell all the horses privately to the same people year after year. i find if you tell them the truth right from the hop they come back and buy again. not only that because there is no sales commision the buyer can get better value for the horses they buy.

also its stuff like jockey kickbacks that are morally wrong that hurt the game.

this game is crying out for more rules and stiffer penalties for those that break the rules its not even funny. its high time that racing shapes up and becomes more of a legitamate sport. without rules people will always think there are improprioties going on. most people like tough rules.

[TJDave]

Originally Posted by lamboguy

if i had my choice of being a jock or a punching bag for mohamed ali, i would rather be the punching bag.

There have been many times when I'd like to have used a jock as a punching bag.

[Brogan]

Originally Posted by TJDave

There have been many times when I'd like to have used a jock as a punching bag.

Somebody just tried that with Kieran Fallon.