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11-14-2022, 11:18 AM
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#1
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velocitician
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 26,301
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Origin of terms
Heard a story years back, and have NEVER found out if it was factual....Maybe some others here can substantiate it or not.
In the days when bookies were the only betting mechanism on track, they used to pay only for "straight" win bets...Later, as they expanded their scope, they began to pay for PLACE (at first, the Euro concept that lumped together 2nd and 3rd) and finally show.
I wondered, and as it was explained to me, where the terms "place," and 'show" came from. After a race, the bookies would display the "straight" payout on their chalk boards, but then SEPARATELY would PLACE another notification elsewhere and then finally a THIRD notation was held up to the assembled crowd and SHOWED to those who had used that bookie's service....
If anyone has an alternative explanation, that would be appreciated.
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"If this world is all about winners, what's for the losers?" Jr. Bonner: "Well somebody's got to hold the horses Ace."
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11-14-2022, 06:22 PM
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Clarksville, AR
Posts: 1,223
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I've sent the question to the Keeneland Library, and to Michael Veitch, the historian at the National Museum of Racing in Saratoga Springs.
Here is Mr. Veitch's reply - somewhat in keeping with the OP's info:
Quote:
Dear Rev. Tom:
You have asked an excellent question. Here is what I know, and you have prompted me to look further.
As with so much of American racing, our roots are English, dating to colonial times.
In British betting of the time, the "payout place" in a race with 7 horses or less was if your selection finished first or second.
In a race with 8 or more horses, if your horse "showed up" in the first three, you were paid.
I suspect this is the origin of our use of these terms.
As an aside, you might get a kick out of this:
The term "pari-mutuel" betting comes from France as "Paris Mutuels" in which the French races took 3 percent of the total betting pool for the track and returned the other 97 percent to the bettors.
Thank you for writing and if I can find any more information I will let you know.
Sincerely,
Michael Veitch
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I'll keep watch for any further responses from either party.
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Tom in NW Arkansas
Past performances are no guarantee of future results. - Why isn't this disclaimer printed in the Daily Racing Form?
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11-14-2022, 06:30 PM
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,738
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So takeout on French tracks a bunch of years ago was 3%? lol
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11-14-2022, 11:48 PM
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#4
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velocitician
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 26,301
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Mr. Veitch (with whom I have attended Saratoga's meeting a time or two) is one of the BEST sources of HISTORICAL information with whom I have had the pleasure of knowing. He also sits on the board of the Canadian Horse Racing hall of Fame, and is an all around nice guy who showed me around the town the first time I was there in 2011.
He recently published his work on the History of Saratoga...
My computer crashed and I have lot his e-mail address.
__________________
"If this world is all about winners, what's for the losers?" Jr. Bonner: "Well somebody's got to hold the horses Ace."
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11-15-2022, 09:47 AM
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Clarksville, AR
Posts: 1,223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 46zilzal
My computer crashed and I have lot his e-mail address.
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I went to the National Museum of Racing website looking for someone appropriate to ask, and that's where I found him and his contact info, if you'd like to try and re-establish contact. (He did reply from a different email address.)
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Tom in NW Arkansas
Past performances are no guarantee of future results. - Why isn't this disclaimer printed in the Daily Racing Form?
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11-15-2022, 02:36 PM
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#6
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velocitician
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 26,301
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His e-mail address is based upon a horse named Patelin
__________________
"If this world is all about winners, what's for the losers?" Jr. Bonner: "Well somebody's got to hold the horses Ace."
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11-15-2022, 04:37 PM
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Clarksville, AR
Posts: 1,223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 46zilzal
His e-mail address is based upon a horse named Patelin
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Yep.
__________________
Tom in NW Arkansas
Past performances are no guarantee of future results. - Why isn't this disclaimer printed in the Daily Racing Form?
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