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Old 06-16-2018, 10:08 AM   #301
Tom
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Before they hit the first turn, there was AMPLE room for anyone to engage Justify before RH got into position - as an EP would do to the outside.

Trouble was, room was not what they were lacking. Spped to get there wasnowehre in that bunch.

No sense looking for a "hole" if it is traveling faster than you are!
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Old 06-16-2018, 11:29 AM   #302
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I think if people really wanted to focus on conspiracy it would be with Noble Indy, who clearly was told to do one thing and the rider did another. Noble Indy was supposed to go to the lead at all costs, he was never really asked out of the gate. I dont see how Restoring Hope had any real effect on Noble Indy.

Restoring Hope was told to be forwardly placed, he was.
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Old 06-16-2018, 01:25 PM   #303
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1. Were instructions given to Noble Indy's rider to use his horse to outrun or pressure Justify at all costs with no regard to winning and or to aid another horses chances of winning?

2. Were instructions given to Restoring Hope's rider to use his horse in a manner that compromised his chances of winning?

3. Did the rider of Restoring Hope ride in such a manner as to willfully compromise his mounts chances of winning to aid another horses chances of winning?

4. Was the late change in Restoring Hope's blks. to "OFF" stated at time of entry or within a time period allowed in NY?

5. Why was there no announcement of the blinker change until approx. 1pm the day of the race which was well after the betting had started ?

These are 5 questions that speak to actual rules of racing which are put in place to protect the public.

They should be answered to the public, so as to assure that their best interests are being considered.

Whether Justify would have won anyway or Noble Indy wasn't fast enough or anything else is opinion. And while it is great to discuss these things, there should be no wondering when it comes to the integrity of the game.

Last edited by Ruffian1; 06-16-2018 at 01:26 PM.
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Old 06-16-2018, 01:30 PM   #304
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1. Were instructions given to Noble Indy's rider to use his horse to outrun or pressure Justify at all costs with no regard to winning and or to aid another horses chances of winning?

2. Were instructions given to Restoring Hope's rider to use his horse in a manner that compromised his chances of winning?

3. Did the rider of Restoring Hope ride in such a manner as to willfully compromise his mounts chances of winning to aid another horses chances of winning?

4. Was the late change in Restoring Hope's blks. to "OFF" stated at time of entry or within a time period allowed in NY?

5. Why was there no announcement of the blinker change until approx. 1pm the day of the race which was well after the betting had started ?

These are 5 questions that speak to actual rules of racing which are put in place to protect the public.

They should be answered to the public, so as to assure that their best interests are being considered.

Whether Justify would have won anyway or Noble Indy wasn't fast enough or anything else is opinion. And while it is great to discuss these things, there should be no wondering when it comes to the integrity of the game.
This is all opinion, I have seen no proof....other than the Blinkers issues which was a total fail by NYRA, that horse should have been scratched, money had already been bet without that knowledge.

I dont think the bettors are much of a concern for upper level management in this game, not all track execs feel this way, but I think a great portion do, their actions speak louder than words.
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Old 06-16-2018, 01:48 PM   #305
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The game is run for the owners - never has been for the bettors.
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Old 06-16-2018, 01:49 PM   #306
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This is all opinion, I have seen no proof....other than the Blinkers issues which was a total fail by NYRA, that horse should have been scratched, money had already been bet without that knowledge.

I dont think the bettors are much of a concern for upper level management in this game, not all track execs feel this way, but I think a great portion do, their actions speak louder than words.
Please don't think this is my opinion. I am not stating any opinion in these matters.
These are questions that need to be answered to protect the integrity of the game.
I am not saying that any wrong doing happened. What I am saying is they need to be addressed if for no other reason than to insure the integrity of the game as it pertains to its customers.
A customer does not have to prove something for a Steward. The Steward has to show the public that they are protecting the best interests of the customer.

If I call the police and report possible gun fire , I don't have to prove it to them before they come and check it out.

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Old 06-16-2018, 02:09 PM   #307
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Please don't think this is my opinion. I am not stating any opinion in these matters.
These are questions that need to be answered to protect the integrity of the game.
I am not saying that any wrong doing happened. What I am saying is they need to be addressed if for no other reason than to insure the integrity of the game as it pertains to its customers.
A customer does not have to prove something for a Steward. The Steward has to show the public that they are protecting the best interests of the customer.

If I call the police and report possible gun fire , I don't have to prove it to them before they come and check it out.
They talked to the rider yesterday, the facts as he stated were that he rode to be forwardly placed, did not interfere with anyone, and ended up in a great position around the first turn (on the flank of the winner).

I am not sure what the expectation is for the track to become the FBI and try to see if people are not being truthful.
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Old 06-16-2018, 02:28 PM   #308
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They talked to the rider yesterday, the facts as he stated were that he rode to be forwardly placed, did not interfere with anyone, and ended up in a great position around the first turn (on the flank of the winner).

I am not sure what the expectation is for the track to become the FBI and try to see if people are not being truthful.
"Hello sir, this is the police calling. We've got you on camera stealing from a register. Can you tell me if you actually did it and if you meant to do it?"

"No, I didn't do it"

"OK, thank you. That pretty much clears up the matter"
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Old 06-16-2018, 02:32 PM   #309
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They talked to the rider yesterday, the facts as he stated were that he rode to be forwardly placed, did not interfere with anyone, and ended up in a great position around the first turn (on the flank of the winner).

I am not sure what the expectation is for the track to become the FBI and try to see if people are not being truthful.
Well that is great to know. I was unaware of that. If the Stewards were satisfied with Giroux's answers, then number 2 and 3 have been looked into.

The expectation of the track is to insure that no person breaks a rule of racing.

Yes, acting like the FBI is exactly what they are there to do. Enforce the rules and protect the public and the integrity of the game.

I would think customers would be happy about that and hope they did that not only for the Belmont but for every race anytime they deemed it necessary.
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Old 06-16-2018, 02:54 PM   #310
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"Hello sir, this is the police calling. We've got you on camera stealing from a register. Can you tell me if you actually did it and if you meant to do it?"

"No, I didn't do it"

"OK, thank you. That pretty much clears up the matter"
Well yea, but I believe the video supports just what he said. Does it not?
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Old 06-16-2018, 03:06 PM   #311
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Well yea, but I believe the video supports just what he said. Does it not?
It also supported about 5 other things that indicated collusion with the winner. His answer is simply semantics. If asking the rider is paramount to taking action, you can expect exactly zero enforcement of any rules ever.
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Old 06-16-2018, 03:11 PM   #312
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It also supported about 5 other things that indicated collusion with the winner. His answer is simply semantics. If asking the rider is paramount to taking action, you can expect exactly zero enforcement of any rules ever.
ok, well, until there is further evidence that something nefarious went on I think I will just listen to the world class rider rather than opinion on a message board....but hey, you could be right.
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Old 06-16-2018, 03:15 PM   #313
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ok, well, until there is further evidence that something nefarious went on I think I will just listen to the world class rider rather than opinion on a message board....but hey, you could be right.
I am right.
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Old 06-16-2018, 03:23 PM   #314
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Well yea, but I believe the video supports just what he said. Does it not?
Your point of view is based off your belief that Noble Indy/Castellano weren't interested in the lead. My point of view based off of the aerial view is that at around the 10 second mark Noble Indy was challenging for the lead but trying to get position outside of 3 horses. At that point RH sprinted ahead of him and made a right hand turn floating from the 6 path to eventually the 3 path. It took over 20 seconds before he worked his way into a stable position where Castellano would have been able to then brush into the lead. Whether Castellano intended to challenge Justify early for the lead to me is a non issue. The actions of RH made that an impossibility. For RH to make a right hand turn in front of Noble Indy and essentially block him from challenging Justify in the first 30 seconds of the race, dictated that A) RH would have no chance to win B) Noble Indy would have a tiny chance to win c) Provide Justify with an unchallenged lead throughout since those were the only 2 speeds in the race.

I find this completely unacceptable. The fact that this type of crap is a pattern with Baffert means that his is a problem that is now completely out of hand. If this is what racing has become, then frankly they need to limit entries to one horse per owner and one horse per trainer. It appears that is too difficult to properly police the sport.
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Old 06-16-2018, 03:30 PM   #315
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ok, well, until there is further evidence that something nefarious went on I think I will just listen to the world class rider rather than opinion on a message board....but hey, you could be right.
You listen to the rider and further investigate if you deem it necessary. That is the job of the Steward. Anybody talked to Bob or Repole yet? Repole admitted a rule violation. Maybe he was just upset though.

I don't get not wanting Stewards to do their job.

And the people that post on this and other message boards are the types of people that the rules are written for. Customers. What is wrong with trying to protect them?
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