Interesting OpEd in NY Post

[PaceAdvantage]

http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/op...ists/45430.htm

I particularly enjoyed this passage:

It's no wonder that MoveOn's leaders have come to see themselves as Democratic leaders. "Now it's our party," Eli Pariser, head of MoveOn's political operations, wrote last December. "We bought it, we own it and we're going to take it back."

The prospect horrifies some centrist Democrats who have urged the party to steer clear of MoveOn. "You've got to reject [filmmaker] Michael Moore and the MoveOn crowd," Al From, head of the Democratic Leadership Council, said recently, calling MoveOn's members "elites, people who sit in their basements all the time and play on their computers."

[JustRalph]

I found this part interesting.....very funny in fact.........

"MoveOn was started by the husband-and-wife software entrepreneurs Wes Boyd and Joan Blades. In a conversation last fall, Blades told me it began one day in 1998 when she and Boyd were having lunch in a Chinese restaurant near Berkeley, Calif., where they live. They were discussing the Clinton impeachment battle, then raging in Washington, and concluded that Republicans seemed to have gone crazy.


They found that everyone in the restaurant agreed with them. "We were hearing another table where people were saying, 'How can we be doing this?' " Blades told me. "We were just hearing all around us, 'This is crazy.' " On the basis of that polling in one of the bluest areas of the United States, Boyd and Blades decided to create MoveOn. "Using e-mail and the Web, we can focus a broad and deep consensus in the American public into action,"

This had to be the miscalculation of the century.......they thought that the rest of the country was absolutely in sync with Berkeley California

[toetoe]

I must jump in here. I am far from elite, but I spend WAY too much time in my cyberbunker.

What's really great is that I grew up in Berkeley. So typical of that subset of Berkeleyans to unscientifically survey the surrounding gastronomes, find some agreement, add two and two, get five, convince themselves all good people agree with them, etc.

[Tom]

And one of them found a finger in his bowl of chili, too!

[ljb]

If you folks would take a peek at the Frontline Documentary regarding Walmart thread, you may have a better understanding of Moveon's growing popularity.

[PaceAdvantage]

I'd like a better understanding of why MoveOn sucks at results....especially against "the worst President in history"

But they didn't stop impeachment, nor did they later succeed in punishing the impeachers at the polls. In fact, MoveOn largely failed in its electoral goals in 1998, 2000 and 2002.

Then came 2004, when MoveOn's leaders were again convinced that a majority of Americans was behind them. "Maybe I should say it out loud," Blades said during a speech in Washington last June. "Finally, everybody's saying, 'Yeah, we're going to win by a landslide.' " Wrong again.

Now, Democrats are lining up for the support of MoveOn and its energetic members. Yes, MoveOn has a lot of things to offer. But a winning strategy might not be one of them.

[Suff]

excuse me.. But have'nt liberals recieved more votes in 3 of the last 4 presidential elections? I'm confused.

And is it partisian thinking when I say... If 16 fruitcakes hadn't flown 3 planes into some buildings, it'd been 4 of 4?

[Suff]

and another thing.. and it gets tiring watching the America haters operate.

The quote he used where Moveon stated they were powerful was in 2002.

And the Founding Dinner was 1998. So There never was a "Calculation" "NEAR" Berkely that the Restuarant audience was in snyc with America.

But it made Ralph feel good to say that. Facts be damned.

And PA... did'nt we just agree that the NY haters could care less about 9-11-01. And you see this guy write "Near Berkely CA" in that story? Go look at it. It did not Happen in BERKLEY...he said "Near" it. he is doing the same thing to California, that people do to NY. Dividing the Nation by imaginary lines. They love to hate America . I don't know why they hate America so much.... It boggles my mind.

[PaceAdvantage]

This has nothing to do with America...it has to to with MoveOn....LOL

[Suff]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

This has nothing to do with America...it has to to with MoveOn....LOL

I mostly like them. And as far as Michael Moore. That poor guy. Geez. He's a Ham-n-Egger. his flick Roger and Me was great. Bowling for Columbine had some great scene's.....and Faranhiet 911 was great. You have to see through the manipulation...and in any Political documentary it will be there.

I have no issue with Michael Moore.

Most of the people who bash him have never seen ANY of his Flicks.

But really, before he was anybody! Just being himself, so you know he wasn't putting on a face...he made "Roger & Me"...and anyone who's hasn't seen that Documentary , that comments on Michael Moore... I just ignore.
He's a Great Great American.

Plus he CLOBBERED O'reilly on the Factor...and I liked that. It was funny when O'reilly admitted that he found no redeeeming value in sending his son to die in Fallujah. Loved it.

[PaceAdvantage]

I don't understand why O'Reily gets bashed so much on this board from those on the left. The few times I've watched him, he seems fairly evenhanded with his criticisms....much more so than I would have thought listening to the folks complain about him and Fox on this board.

And as for MM, I saw Bowling for Columbine, and I will see F 9/11 one day.

Never did catch Roger & Me....I'm not surprised it might be his best. They always say sequels never live up to the original....

[JustRalph]

Originally Posted by Suff

And the Founding Dinner was 1998. So There never was a "Calculation" "NEAR" Berkely that the Restuarant audience was in snyc with America.

But it made Ralph feel good to say that. Facts be damned.

from the article: "On the basis of that polling in one of the bluest areas of the United States, Boyd and Blades decided to create MoveOn. "Using e-mail and the Web, we can focus a broad and deep consensus in the American public into action,"

It sure sounds to me like they thought the Restaurant was in sync with America, considering the resources and effort they committed to the project. I won't argue the point.........you read it your way....... I will read it mine.

I will tell you what Mike. You have been busting my balls pretty good around here lately. You and I obviously don't think alike. Even though at one time I thought we were much closer in our thinking. You have either fallen farther to the left, or I have pulled to the right. Or maybe it is a little bit of both. (Although I don't think I could get much more to the right) The bottom line being that we disagree. I don't have as much time as I used to when it comes to this board. I am pretty busy running a small company and don't find as much time to play on the net. I rarely get to play the ponies like I used to either. But I still like this place. I have friends here and I get emails and such from the them on a regular basis. I would really like to participate in some of these long threads and give it back to you as much as you give, I still enjoy it. Maybe in the future I will have more time. But for now, go over to the closest armchair you can find and smack your nuts against it as hard as you can. That should make up for what I wish I had time to do..........

[ljb]

Gentlemen,
Prior to the last presidential election, I mentioned to a young republican my biggest fear was the fundamentalist and their force in the republican party. I said I didn't know how to fight this group. He suggested I find/join a group that would fight them. Moveon fills that need. They are just getting their legs and will be a force to keep an eye on as time progress's. The fundamentalists have been going at it for 8 years or more and are close to creating the theocracy they desire in Washington. Plus they have weekly meetings with their constituents to enforce their teachings. You can lol all you want but Moveon is not going away.

[lsbets]

Suff,

I guess I would fall in that group you say hates America - that is pretty freaking funny. Get over yourself. We really don't care that much about the day to day goings on in the Northeast, no matter how important you think you are. And if you think anyone not from the Northeast or California who is not liberal hates America, I could send you to a lot of graves from Southern, Midwestern, and Southwestern soldiers who sacrificed everything for a country you say they hate. Were you trying to sound like Equineer, or was it just a coincidence?

[Equineer]

Lsbets,

Why don't you provide an audio link for "Taps" to accompany your maudlin partisan posts?

Americans have always mourned and grieved for every soldier killed in the line of duty. But you have to examine the graves individually to differentiate between those who made the ultimate but necessary sacrifice and those who unnecessarily died in vain.

In Vietnam, thousands died in vain after "Westmoreland's Moment" in the fall of 1967 when Johnson decided that a military solution was not politically feasible... tens of thousands of unnecessary casualties were incurred until Saigon fell in 1975.

Iraq has likewise been a bungled mess. When Bush was too cowardly for political reasons to mobilize sufficient manpower to expeditiously and decisively occupy Iraq, he sealed the tragic destiny for thousands of unnecessary casualties incurred after his "Mission Accomplished" grandstanding.