It's on! The Official Boycott Keeneland Thread.

[LemonSoupKid]

Originally Posted by cj

I believe that if they reversed the decision for the spring meet, not only would handle return, it would explode. Bettors would feel they accomplished something and want to support the product. It is almost a no brainer, can't lose decision. Imagine the fanfare they would receive if people thought Keeneland actually heard them.

But since it is horse racing, I'm not optimistic.

A good point by CJ

[Poindexter]

Originally Posted by cj

I believe that if they reversed the decision for the spring meet, not only would handle return, it would explode. Bettors would feel they accomplished something and want to support the product. It is almost a no brainer, can't lose decision. Imagine the fanfare they would receive if people thought Keeneland actually heard them.

But since it is horse racing, I'm not optimistic.

We are in trouble now. CJ, just gave racing an idea. Everybody will raise takeout for a meet, have a wash revenue wise, then go back to their original takeout and expect handle to explode.

[Jeff P]

drf.com|By Matt Hegarty|10/30/2017 3:40PM
Keeneland handle down 8.7 percent:
http://www.drf.com/news/keeneland-ha...own-87-percent

LEXINGTON, Ky. – Total handle on Keeneland’s races during the track’s 17-day fall meet was down 8.7 percent compared with wagering during the fall meet last year, according to figures provided by the Kentucky Horse Racing Commission, a decline that strongly suggested the track’s betting figures suffered from calls to boycott the track because of its recent decision to raise its takeout rates.

-jp

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[DeanT]

Ouch, the Elliston quotes in that article are cringeworthy.

The place has done a complete 180 since Nick left. They deserve the brand hit they've taken with customers, imo.

[Jeff P]

The orginal article contained the following sentence:

Bob Elliston, Keeneland’s vice president of sales and racing, did not return a phone call on Monday.

The updated article now reads:

Bob Elliston, Keeneland’s vice president of sales and racing, cited the bad weather days and the transfer of eight races during the meet from turf to dirt for a portion of the declines, while also stating that Keeneland faced “headwinds” to post stronger wagering figures this year because of near record wagering totals last year. However, he also acknowledged that the takeout increases had played a role in the declines.

“You don't like to see declines, but with all the variables that go into it, it wasn’t the doom and gloom that people predicted, with people talking about drops of 25 percent or more,” Elliston said. “We were facing some headwinds in that last year we had some record days and perfect weather from the first race of the meet to the last race of the meet.”

It looks like Elliston spoke with Matt Heggarty after the original article was published.

That said, Keeneland did not have "perfect weather from the first race of the meet to the last race of the meet" last fall as claimed in the article.

The Keeneland chart for Oct 20, 2016 clearly shows the dirt surface was wet.

The Keeneland chart for Oct 21, 2016 clearly shows the dirt surface was wet - and that races 3 and 6 were taken off the turf.

In my opinion, Keeneland saying they had "perfect weather" last fall when in fact they did not is just sad.





-jp

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[cj]

I guess nobody told him about Google and Equibase.

[Jeff P]

Originally Posted by cj

I believe that if they reversed the decision for the spring meet, not only would handle return, it would explode. Bettors would feel they accomplished something and want to support the product. It is almost a no brainer, can't lose decision. Imagine the fanfare they would receive if people thought Keeneland actually heard them.

But since it is horse racing, I'm not optimistic.

You're right. If they did that all would be forgiven.

However, I'd take it one step further.

I'd not only reverse the decision, I'd make exacta takeout the same as Kentucky Downs: 18.25%

Something already proven to make handle explode.


-jp

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[Afleet]

Originally Posted by cj

I guess nobody told him about Google and Equibase.

I've heard of those somewhere-maybe that internet thingy

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by Jeff P

You're right. If they did that all would be forgiven.

However, I'd take it one step further.

I'd not only reverse the decision, I'd make exacta takeout the same as Kentucky Downs: 18.25%

Something already proven to make handle explode.


-jp

.

is takeout the real reason why they are trying squeeze Ky Downs?

[Jeff P]

I dont' have any first hand knowledge about what's being said behind closed doors among Churchill, Keeneland, Kentucky Downs, and the Kentucky Racing Commission.

But I do think the following timeline might be of some help in connecting the dots as to how Keeneland went from "We're proud to be HANA's #1 rated track" to "CHURCHILL DOWNS AND KEENELAND ANNOUNCE HISTORIC PARTNERSHIP TO PROPOSE CONSTRUCTION OF TWO NEW RACING FACILITIES IN CORBIN AND OAK GROVE, KENTUCKY"...

* August 2013: Kentucky Downs wants to put itself on the map by giving lower takeout a try. They ask HANA to help them promote a reduction in exacta takeout. They also begin using proceeds from instant racing machines to bump their purses.

* Sept 2013: Kentucky Downs reports record handle. $12.78M for 2013 vs. $7.6M for 2012 UP +5.2M +68.73% (Despite canceling one of their Wed race cards after 4 races due to weather.)

* April 2014: Keeneland announces they will replace their polytrack surface with natural dirt after the conclusion of their spring 2014 meet - and that they plan to run their fall 2014 meet on natural dirt.

* April 2014: Churchill announces a takeout increase for their 2014 spring meet. On June 29, 2014: Playersboycott.org reports that Churchill handle outside their 2 special event days (Oaks Fri and Derby Sat) was down -47.9M -25.64% vs. the previous year.

* June 2014: The Breeders Cup and Keeneland announce that Keeneland will host the Breeders Cup in Oct 2015.

* Sept 2014: Kentucky Downs reports an uptick in handle: +3.04M +23.8% vs. the previous year.

* Nov 2014: Handle for Churchill's two fall meets are down -$29.9M -18.25% vs. the previous year.

* May 2015: HANA learns the Breeders Cup has been lobbying Keeneland to get behind a takeout hike for the 2 day Breeders Cup meet. Horseplayers who are HANA members ask Keeneland management to consider not allowing the Breeders Cup to hike takeout for the 2 day Breeders Cup meet. Keeneland management sides with horseplayers.

* Sept 2015: Kentucky Downs reports an uptick in handle: +$1.02M +6.46% vs. the previous year. (Despite canceling one of their Wed race cards after 2 races due to weather.)

* Oct 2015: The Breeders Cup is conducted at Keeneland using Keeneland takeout rates (16% wps and 19% exotics.)

* Sept 2016: Kentucky Downs reports record handle: +5.76M +34.20% vs. the previous year.

* Aug 2017: Keeneland announces a takeout hike (except for the pick5 they will be using the same rates as Churchill.)

* Sept 2017: CHURCHILL DOWNS AND KEENELAND ANNOUNCE HISTORIC PARTNERSHIP TO PROPOSE CONSTRUCTION OF TWO NEW RACING FACILITIES IN CORBIN AND OAK GROVE, KENTUCKY:
https://www.keeneland.com/racing/chu...ic-partnership

Sept 2017: Kentucky Downs reports record handle again: +7.3M +32.51% vs. the previous year. (Despite being forced to cancel their opening day 2017 Saturday race card due to weather and run it on a Wednesday)

* 10-30-2017: DRF reports Keeneland fall handle down 8.7 percent:
http://www.drf.com/news/keeneland-ha...own-87-percent

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

is takeout the real reason why they are trying squeeze Ky Downs?

Even though Kentucky Downs has reported handle growth for 5 consecutive years 2013-2014-2015-2016-2017 -- going from $7.6M for 5 race dates in 2012 to $29.9M for 5 race dates in 2017 -- more than tripling their handle during that time period -- in part because they lowered their exacta takeout and asked a horseplayers association to help them promote lower exacta takeout to horseplayers -- and also in part because they used instant racing dollars to boost their purses...

And even though Kentucky Downs leveraging reduced exacta takeout to grow handle like they have flies in the face of everything both Churchill and now Keeneland have been saying about the need for higher takeout:

I don't think the lower takeout at Kentucky Downs has anything to do with Churchill and Keeneland trying to squeeze Kentucky Downs.

I think Churchill and Keeneland have noticed that Kentucky Downs has generated a LOT of money from instant racing machines, largely because they are located close to the Tennessee border - and Tennessee does not have legalized gambling.

I suspect Churchill and Keeneland want to build instant racing parlors... Strike that. Parlors is such an inaccurate word... Let's just call it what it actually is:

I suspect Churchill and Keeneland want to build instant racing CASINOS near the Tennessee border because they think the potential amount of instant racing CASINO dollars is huge.






-jp

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[JustRalph]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

I ordered a new pickup truck this morning. Had to make 3-4 decisions that all had to do with price. You know, the secondary issue.........

Finally got my new truck today. I made a few changes along the way that delayed it some

For those with a Tundra (there’s a few on here) I got $18602 in trade on my 2011 SR5 with 82k miles. Retail on it is about 20-21k....if they can get it after putting in a windshield (small ding) and $1200 in tires that were needed....new mats and a good detail.......Good for them......

Paid just a hair under 40k for this one. It’s 2 wheel drive Texas edition, but I ordered it heavy on electronics including weather radar which came with the higher end nav unit.

[Thomas Roulston]

Keeneland has never been one my favorite tracks. Maybe it's the track configuration, I don't know.

[Augenj]

Possibly a glimmer of light on the horizon?

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-rac..._medium=social

[highnote]

Racing better figure it out soon. The Supreme Court will probably decide in favor of the right of states to allow or not allow sports wagering. The decision will probably be made by June. It could be three or four more years before a lot of states start allowing sports wagering and when they do racing will be under even more pressure.

Now, some racetracks may set up sports books and subsidize their racing from their sports betting revenue, but other casinos won't have a racetrack to have to worry about subsidizing.

If the High Court rules in New Jersey's favor there could be more racetrack closures.

[Afleet]

What will be the plan this spring if KEE keeps the take the same?