when does a 1-9 shot become a 6/5 shot

[lamboguy]

when you run at CHARLESTOWN, they leave the gate and go up in price.

last night it only happened twice and they caught the poor anouncer on one of them. he was finishing the race saying the horse won like a 1-9 shot should, and interupted himself and said i meant 6/5. they have real big odds changes in charlestown. this is parimutual racing in 2009 and soon to be alot worse in 2010.

[andymays]

Originally Posted by lamboguy

when you run at CHARLESTOWN, they leave the gate and go up in price.

last night it only happened twice and they caught the poor anouncer on one of them. he was finishing the race saying the horse won like a 1-9 shot should, and interupted himself and said i meant 6/5. they have real big odds changes in charlestown. this is parimutual racing in 2009 and soon to be alot worse in 2010.

Did the horse break well?

I ask because it sounds like someone cancelled a big bet a couple of seconds after the start.

[lamboguy]

Originally Posted by andymays

Did the horse break well?

I ask because it sounds like someone cancelled a big bet a couple of seconds after the start.

they cancelled, but the first odds flash after the gate was 6/5. this was someone trying to force people away from betting the horse so they got a better price. its one of those things going on in the game that needs to be straightened out right away.

if stock prices get manipulated the guy gets caught and does some time, horse racing should be the same.

[andymays]

Originally Posted by lamboguy

they cancelled, but the first odds flash after the gate was 6/5. this was someone trying to force people away from betting the horse so they got a better price. its one of those things going on in the game that needs to be straightened out right away.
if stock prices get manipulated the guy gets caught and does some time, horse racing should be the same.

Got it! Thanks!

[markgoldie]

If this can be done, it must be technically legal, since only a mutuel-pool provider can allow the cancellation.

That being the case, I fail to see why this doesn't go on all the time since it seems like a strategy that can't fail to pay dividends. That is, you love a horse that you think may pay, say 3-5. If you open the horse with $10,000 to win, you pin him at 1-9 for the majority of betting time at a smaller track. This sets balooned prices on all other horses and entices action on these inflated odds. Then, as the horses enter the gate, you cancel $9,000 of your bet and presto! You get $1000 to win at 6-5 instead of the 3-5 you had expected.

Personally, I don't think you can restrict cancelling to any specified period of time before post, since any phantom wager can attract counter action from those who do not have the easy ability to cancel. Nor do I think a money bar can be set for cancellations because if there is a deemed legitimate reason to allow cancellations, this discriminates against the bigger bettor.

And so the answer would seem to be NO CANCELLATIONS. Period. Can't see the alternative.

[Dan H]

Since "bridge jumper" is already used ... do we call these guys "bungee jumpers?"

[my_nameaintearl]

i enjoy cancellations i often watch small fields of trotters and sometimes before the gate they break and i can cancel my ticket.


Some of the People who work at the turf club dont often give the correct tickets because they are to tied up in convo's so i then have to go cancel it.

so no cancellations would be a bad idea

[markgoldie]

I should also add that this strategy would defeat anyone who makes their own "value" line, as well as automated players who use a tote-board program to determine value-- worse yet for the fully automated bettors like CBedo.

Also, while we're on this topic, does anyone have a comprehensive knowledge of how and where the players are accessing these last-second cancellations? The turf-club players can't do it because you have to stand in line for a teller. Or can you do it on one of the machines??

I use an off-shore betting service and I have to place a phone call, so it's impossible for me to consider.

[lamboguy]

Originally Posted by markgoldie

I should also add that this strategy would defeat anyone who makes their own "value" line, as well as automated players who use a tote-board program to determine value-- worse yet for the fully automated bettors like CBedo.

Also, while we're on this topic, does anyone have a comprehensive knowledge of how and where the players are accessing these last-second cancellations? The turf-club players can't do it because you have to stand in line for a teller. Or can you do it on one of the machines??

I use an off-shore betting service and I have to place a phone call, so it's impossible for me to consider.

i use premier turf and ubet and can do it on both, but i don't abuse it because i think it is legal but wrong to do at this stage of my life. i cancel tickets when i make a mistake.

[johnhannibalsmith]

My experience has been that tickets with a face value of $50 or less can be cancelled at a machine.

[my_nameaintearl]

At Harrahs Chester i sit in the simulcast area and all my tickets are in a queue i can click it and cancel very easily ive canceled $120 tickets often on there but i never would think about tryin to spoil a pool with 9g's so i assume that would take time to cancel that and would prolly need a SUPERVISOR to do so.

[proximity]

i see these situations from time to time and i like to call them lamboguys!!

where is the trpb?

out to lunch i guess.

they do have an integrity hotline though and that number is 1-866-tip-trpb.

small cancellations are one thing, but when the pool size actually goes down after the race has started....

[matthewsiv]

When nobody wants him

[fmolf]

it may be technically legal but ethically it is wrong to manipulate the odds like that.I would agree with Mark that a ban on cancellations,a total ban for all denomination wagers inside of 5 minutes to post should cure the problem.I personally would not bet a race where there was a 1/9 shot running anyway unless value was offered in the exotic pools.If the horse is legit then inflated odds on other runners are not really overlaid are they?

[takeout]

They also had a weird looking one Wednesday at Charles Town in the 4th. The 5 Horse was 21-1 and right before the race goes off she goes to 7-2 in one flash. Shortly after the race starts she goes back up to 23-1, then 19-1 and stays there. (finished 5th) Must’ve been a canceled bet. My rough guess would be around $2,000. That may be way off as it’s hard to guess how much money was in at that time. A lot of the money at CT is still coming in while the race is being run. Sometimes more than half the pool. Someone who scrapes the tote board data may be able to tell exactly how much was canceled.