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View Poll Results: How soon should synthetic surfaces be removed where the weather is not a big factor?
Immediately 79 64.23%
< 1 year 8 6.50%
< 3 years 4 3.25%
Keep them 32 26.02%
Voters: 123. This poll is closed

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Old 07-31-2009, 12:49 PM   #16
Tom
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One thing about Del Mar, either they cannot control the surface at all or have no clue how to do it. Either way, Del Mar is a a joke. Clearly, the horses nor the bettors matter to Del Mar management.

I encourage PETA to swarm down on them and make their very existence a living hell.
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Old 07-31-2009, 12:56 PM   #17
RichieP
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I voted to keep them for one reason:
Chaos.

The win prices are much better and I am willing to trade % for price.

I like the poly's and now I will "duck"
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Old 07-31-2009, 01:14 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichieP
I voted to keep them for one reason:
Chaos.

The win prices are much better and I am willing to trade % for price.

I like the poly's and now I will "duck"
Marginally higher.

My database has the average so cal winning dirt odds at 5.5, and the winning all weather odds at 5.7

I'd rather take the consistency of dirt, and get rid of the plastic for the sake of a minor cut in the win mutual.
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Old 07-31-2009, 01:55 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by cj
Synthetics...is it time?
Past time.
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Old 07-31-2009, 02:25 PM   #20
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Looking at my records over the "poly" era, shows little difference in profitability (which is positive) for me in Southern California (except that I didn't play them at all when first installed until I could get some idea of how they would play), so personally, I'm indifferent, but I do realize that many players and horsemen don't like them, and so I'd vote to get rid of them too.

If they did rip them out, I'd love for them to put in a surface that was extremely deep, slow, and closer biased. Then, we could still take advantage of handicappers who can't do anything but pick the fastest early horses!
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Old 07-31-2009, 02:46 PM   #21
brdman12
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When you walk into Arlington Park from the parking lot, you walk across the sythetic surface as the horses exit that way. Its processed fibers and little pieces of rubber. If its safer fine, otherwise it makes no sense.
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Old 07-31-2009, 07:42 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bison
Marginally higher.

My database has the average so cal winning dirt odds at 5.5, and the winning all weather odds at 5.7

I'd rather take the consistency of dirt, and get rid of the plastic for the sake of a minor cut in the win mutual.
Your two figures seem fairly consistent, so how do you figure dirt to be more consistent? And, if a horse breaks down on dirt, is it still because of the poly?

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Old 07-31-2009, 08:26 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnielu
Your two figures seem fairly consistent, so how do you figure dirt to be more consistent? And, if a horse breaks down on dirt, is it still because of the poly?

jdl
When I said consistent, I was referring to my own personal betting. I am able to pick winners more consistently on dirt. It has nothing to do with price.

While the win odds are similar on both surfaces, I am not able to click consistently on the plastic. Richie P said he liked the synthetics because the winners paid more. IMHO the prices are not that much higher.

Where did I say anything about breakdowns? I know they happen on both surfaces, but I myself prefer dirt. Is that OK jonnielu?
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Old 07-31-2009, 10:48 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bison
When I said consistent, I was referring to my own personal betting. I am able to pick winners more consistently on dirt. It has nothing to do with price.

While the win odds are similar on both surfaces, I am not able to click consistently on the plastic. Richie P said he liked the synthetics because the winners paid more. IMHO the prices are not that much higher.

Where did I say anything about breakdowns? I know they happen on both surfaces, but I myself prefer dirt. Is that OK jonnielu?
Sure, I'm just looking for some evidence that there is an actual difference. I see that there are different characteristics, I just don't see any particular superiority or inferiority to one or the other. Except for slop. Slop does appear to favor horses on the front.

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Old 07-31-2009, 11:23 PM   #25
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Tragic accident for Rene Douglas at AP but do you think Mr D is ever going to pay to have it removed?
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Old 07-31-2009, 11:49 PM   #26
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Woodbine, Arlington, Keeneland, Del Mar. I hope they don't make any changes, and frankly I don't know why they would.
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Old 08-01-2009, 12:05 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnielu
Sure, I'm just looking for some evidence that there is an actual difference. I see that there are different characteristics, I just don't see any particular superiority or inferiority to one or the other. Except for slop. Slop does appear to favor horses on the front.

jdl
With respect to matchups, and race shape, I find the dirt to be more predictable. Also, dirt isn't as prone to the wild swings in bias that make the poly oh so difficult.
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Old 08-01-2009, 01:21 AM   #28
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Tom: What's Your Beef with Del Mar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom
One thing about Del Mar, either they cannot control the surface at all or have no clue how to do it. Either way, Del Mar is a a joke. Clearly, the horses nor the bettors matter to Del Mar management.

I encourage PETA to swarm down on them and make their very existence a living hell.
Del Mar is a fantastic place to visit.
The track is a wonderful place to play.
I have no problem with Del Mar, eventhough some longshots have bounded in,
and I've had one or two or more.

Tom: What is your problem with Del Mar? Please expand.
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Old 08-01-2009, 06:07 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FUGITIVE77
Tragic accident for Rene Douglas at AP but do you think Mr D is ever going to pay to have it removed?
Have horses ever clipped feet on dirt?

jdl
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Old 08-01-2009, 06:27 AM   #30
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I think everyone can agree that unfortunate accidents will and do happen on all surfaces.

The big lies about synthetic surfaces are that they're less expensive to maintain and that they are infinitely more safe than a dirt surface.

More importantly the Customers (Horseplayers) dislike them!

Fields are more bunched up in the stretch and there are much closer finishes on synthetic surfaces. This could mean that there is the potential for more severe accidents but they haven't been around long enough in the United States to know more.

Last edited by andymays; 08-01-2009 at 06:29 AM.
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