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Old 07-06-2005, 09:22 PM   #1
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Who Owns NYRA. Part II

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The law authorizing the creation of the GNYRA went into effect on April 29, 1955.

The GNYRA went into business in September of that year, when the State Racing Commission approved the association franchise and its purchase of the Aqueduct, Belmont, Jamaica and Saratoga tracks.

In early October, the tracks were purchased and their deeds executed.

The GNYRA, now known as NYRA, has possession of those deeds and has paid more than $400 million in taxes since receiving them
http://www.saratogian.com/site/news....d=349537&rfi=6

I had trouble with the link off the Front page.
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Old 07-06-2005, 09:59 PM   #2
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From today's article...

"The law authorizing the creation of the GNYRA went into effect on April 29, 1955.

The GNYRA went into business in September of that year, when the State Racing Commission approved the association franchise and its purchase of the Aqueduct, Belmont, Jamaica and Saratoga tracks.

In early October, the tracks were purchased and their deeds executed.

The GNYRA, now known as NYRA, has possession of those deeds and has paid more than $400 million in taxes since receiving them.

According to NYRA records, the association borrowed $20 million for the acquisition of the <>tracks and another $30 million to begin the rehabilitation of the properties.

It did so without state aid, and took out mortgages from several banks in New York State including Morgan Guaranty Trust and Chase Manhattan."

...so on the surface, it appears that NYRA owns the racetracks...as the article states, "It did so without state aid". But let's look a little deeper. The GNYRA, or the NYRA, was authorized by by the State Racing Commission to purchase the 4 racetracks. It did so but not with it's own money, but by borrowing $50 million from several banks, which presumably they paid back with the profits from the racetracks. Remember, according to the article, the GNYRA was created as a non-profit corporation, ie. they were not supposed to make any profits, but instead to pay the bills and pass the profits on to the state. So really, it seems to me, that the state owns the tracks. Of course, my opinion, and a dollar, will get you a cup of coffee, that is if you don't go to Starbucks!
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Old 07-06-2005, 10:11 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dancer's Image
...so on the surface, it appears that NYRA owns the racetracks...as the article states, "It did so without state aid". But let's look a little deeper. The GNYRA, or the NYRA, was authorized by by the State Racing Commission to purchase the 4 racetracks. It did so but not with it's own money, but by borrowing $50 million from several banks, which presumably they paid back with the profits from the racetracks. Remember, according to the article, the GNYRA was created as a non-profit corporation, ie. they were not supposed to make any profits, but instead to pay the bills and pass the profits on to the state.
Who says they paid the mortgage back with profits? They paid the mortgage with REVENUES, and any RESIDUAL REVENUE LEFT OVER after "paying the bills" (isn't a mortgage also a bill?), was sent to the state.

I don't see, at least by reading this article, any way you could come up with the theory that NYRA doesn't own the tracks outright.

Last edited by PaceAdvantage; 07-06-2005 at 10:12 PM.
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Old 07-06-2005, 10:43 PM   #4
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PA...

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Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
Who says they paid the mortgage back with profits? They paid the mortgage with REVENUES, and any RESIDUAL REVENUE LEFT OVER after "paying the bills" (isn't a mortgage also a bill?), was sent to the state.

I don't see, at least by reading this article, any way you could come up with the theory that NYRA doesn't own the tracks outright.
Now why you do this to yourself?

Worm on a hook, knowing you'd be swimming in this pond.

Mortgage costs are an expense and deducted from Gross Revenue on income statements. Many Firms own thier facilties and building (s). Also, it's standard accounting practice to deduct for a Captial Expenditure fund, where you can park cash for a rainy day. All standard practice at non-profits.

The language, amendments, on and after agreements all make up a Murky situation. Claims can be made by both sides.
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Old 07-06-2005, 10:53 PM   #5
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nonprofit definition

Using ORAN's Dictionary of the Law definition of a nonprofit, it is "any group that is not organized for the primary purpose of making a profit and that does not distribute profits to shareholders, directors, etc." It is pretty clear that a nonprofit can show a bottom line in the black as long as it does not distribute those profits. The individual associations (I don't know if they were for profit or nonprofit organizations, but I'm guessing that they were for profits) which definitely owned the four tracks (including now defunct Jamaica) prior to the formation of GNYRA were on the receiving end of the money that GNYRA borrowed privately to purchase the tracks. The SRWB approved the purchase because thay are the regulatory body for racing in New York. The state legislature did not raise the money for GNYRA; GNYRA borrowed it privately. I believe that NYRA owns the tracks.
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Old 07-06-2005, 11:00 PM   #6
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THe SRWB in NY did not come into existence as the regulator until the early 1980's.
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Old 07-06-2005, 11:28 PM   #7
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Sheesh, there you go again, PA, arguing semantics! Ok, substitute your word, "revenues" for my word, "profits", and WTF difference does it make?

The point is the organization, GNYRA or NYRA, was created by the state as a non-profit corporation. NYRA did not make any profits or revenues with which they could buy the tracks. They were authorized by the state to buy the tracks and they did so by borrowing money, they did not buy the tracks with their own money. They paid off that mortgage through the revenues they collected from running the tracks. I see no way from reading the article, that NYRA could be considered to own the racetracks.
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Old 07-06-2005, 11:32 PM   #8
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Achilles,
What does SRWB stand for? If Figman is correct about the SRWB coming into existence in the early 1980's, they could not have approved the sale of the tracks in 1955. No problem though, I assume the SRWB is some sort of NY state agency and the real approval comes from the state legislature.
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Old 07-06-2005, 11:57 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dancer's Image
Sheesh, there you go again, PA, arguing semantics! Ok, substitute your word, "revenues" for my word, "profits", and WTF difference does it make?
Well, since you claim that NYRA paid for their mortage with PROFITS (which in your mind rightfully belonged to the state, thus making the state owners of the properties), it makes a big difference. As a not-for-profit entity, they are allowed to pay off all their debts and bills with any money that comes in. Anything left over, goes to the state. Clear enough? They didn't pay for the mortage with money that was owed to the state. This is what your post implies.

And was NYRA created by the state, or AUTHORIZED by the state? Big difference.

You are implying that NYRA is a state agency, when it has already been established (by Alen Hevesi himself no less), that NYRA is NOT a state agency. If you don't believe me, read his latest audit, if you haven't already.

Last edited by PaceAdvantage; 07-06-2005 at 11:59 PM.
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Old 07-07-2005, 10:59 AM   #10
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PA,
You posted...
"As a not-for-profit entity, they are allowed to pay off all their debts and bills with any money that comes in. Anything left over, goes to the state. Clear enough? They didn't pay for the mortage with money that was owed to the state. This is what your post implies."

...Thank you. Very clear. Even you should be able to understand it. So if the NYRA didn't have the $50 million mortgage, the money coming in (profits or revenues) would have gone to the state instead of paying off the mortgage. So in other words, NYRA paid off the mortgage with the state's money, and thus the state owns the racetracks.
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Old 07-07-2005, 11:30 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dancer's Image
PA,
You posted...
"As a not-for-profit entity, they are allowed to pay off all their debts and bills with any money that comes in. Anything left over, goes to the state. Clear enough? They didn't pay for the mortage with money that was owed to the state. This is what your post implies."

...Thank you. Very clear. Even you should be able to understand it. So if the NYRA didn't have the $50 million mortgage, the money coming in (profits or revenues) would have gone to the state instead of paying off the mortgage. So in other words, NYRA paid off the mortgage with the state's money, and thus the state owns the racetracks.
Do you have any business experience? By not having a mortgage, they would have had rent, or a lease payment. That, quite likely would have been quite a bit more than $50 million.

Seriously.. are you 10? Do you have any business experience? How do you suppose the previous owners of the racetrack would have been compensated? Gummy bears? You cannot occupy a building without a rental, lease, or mortgage payment.

Do you have a rental payment? or mortgage? When you write your rental check do you think every dollar you pay is profit for the owner?

Think about what your saying... did'nt you just ask yesterday what the difference is between revenues and profit? Come on. Don't ruin a topic that has some worthwhile legs to it. If you don't know the diference between Revenue and net income, you lack the ability to evaluate this situation.
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Old 07-07-2005, 12:25 PM   #12
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Go to this link and scroll down to S.202 for the governing statute.
Just remember that - non-profit racing association = NYRA.

http://tinyurl.com/b9ggo
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Old 07-07-2005, 03:51 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suff
Do you have any business experience? By not having a mortgage, they would have had rent, or a lease payment. That, quite likely would have been quite a bit more than $50 million.

Seriously.. are you 10? Do you have any business experience? How do you suppose the previous owners of the racetrack would have been compensated? Gummy bears? You cannot occupy a building without a rental, lease, or mortgage payment.

Do you have a rental payment? or mortgage? When you write your rental check do you think every dollar you pay is profit for the owner?

Think about what your saying... did'nt you just ask yesterday what the difference is between revenues and profit? Come on. Don't ruin a topic that has some worthwhile legs to it. If you don't know the diference between Revenue and net income, you lack the ability to evaluate this situation.
My, my, aren't you the arrogant one! 9 questions, okay, from the top.
1) yes And by the way, your next sentence is incorrect. By not having a mortgage, they would NOT necessarily had rent, or a lease payment. NYRA could have paid $20 million cash for the purchase of the tracks. Then they would have had a claim to ownership of the tracks.
2) I am >10.
3) repetitive question, sign of early dementia, I'd get that checked out if I were you, O Arrogant one!
4) As owners of the track, they earned the profits.
5) Gummy bears? I have no answer to this improperly formulated question. And your next statement is another incorrect statement...one most certainly can occupy a building without a rental, lease, or mortgage payment.
6) No
7) No
8) I don't write a check, but if I did, no, I would not think that. (is there a point to that question?)
9) Yes, I did, and I don't believe that there is any difference in the NYRA example I'm talking about.

Now, let me ask you a question, Your Mighty Arrogance. Why do I or anyone have to know the difference between Revenue and net income to determine if NYRA owns the racetracks or not?

ps. thanks again for posting this article
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Old 07-07-2005, 07:09 PM   #14
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"Now, let me ask you a question, Your Mighty Arrogance. Why do I or anyone have to know the difference between Revenue and net income to determine if NYRA owns the racetracks or not?"

So you don't post like an idiot. Facts, although moslty foreign to you, are relevant.
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Old 07-07-2005, 07:47 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Figman
Go to this link and scroll down to S.202 for the governing statute.
Just remember that - non-profit racing association = NYRA.

http://tinyurl.com/b9ggo
Reading that made the picture even more cloudy. Ambiguity out the gazoo.

Quote:
g) The provision that upon termination of the existence or earlier
liquidation of such association all of its assets after payment of or
provision for its liabilities will be assigned, transferred and conveyed
and distributed by the governor then
in office in accordance with
applicable provisions of law
That cleary gives the Governer authority over the disposition of assets. However, it does'nt preclude him from assigning those assets to NYRA, or another entity. Also, one could argue that equity built by NYRA is a liability the State is incumbent to recognize.


The State tasks NYRA to:
Quote:
improving the racing
facilities, increasing the conveniences available to patrons and serving
the best interest of racing generally and improving the breed of horses
Virtually any transaction could be classified in racing best interest.

In Sec 208, par. 9.

Quote:
A non-profit racing association:
(a) which is franchised pursuant to this section and which holds title
to the racing facilities, as such term is defined in subdivision ten of
section two hundred fifty-two of this chapter, whereat it is franchised
to conduct race meetings;
(b) which acquired title to such facilities pursuant to the provisions
of section seven-b of chapter four hundred forty of the laws of nineteen
hundred twenty-six as added by section three of chapter eight hundred
twelve of the laws of nineteen hundred fifty-five;
(c) which acquired title to such facilities and provided for their
improvement with monies borrowed pursuant to a long term credit
agreement contracted by such association for such purposes with the
approval of the state racing commission pursuant to the provisions of
section nine-a of chapter two hundred fifty-four of the laws of nineteen
hundred forty as added by section three of chapter eight hundred
thirteen of the laws of nineteen hundred fifty-five; andec.

This clearly says NYRA can sell. no?
Quote:

S209-A
shall apply to the state racing and wagering board and to the board of
the New York state thoroughbred racing capital investment fund for
approval of such disposition, provided, however, that the approval of
such boards shall not be necessary for the sale of property, other than
real property, which is appropriately, customarily and usually sold by
the association in the normal course of its business or which is
necessary or appropriate in the normal course of its business
. If in the
judgment of each such board, acting individually, the public interest,
convenience or necessity and the best interest of racing will be served
thereby, each such board shall enter an order granting approval of such
disposition and of the terms thereof.
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