BC contingency plan

[Saratoga_Mike]

Thought you might say that.

[Afleet]

Originally Posted by Suff

I went, & stayed @ Holiday Inn Wall Street, 2 blocks from WTC. It was still smoking. They were still looking for body parts. Breathing in lower Manhattan was still difficult. One of the guys I went with, non-smoker, had a cough for a week afterwards. Bad scene that I'll never forget.

Wow-thats very interesting. I have only been to NY city a few times, but I remember being in lower Manhattan and was scared to look up at the world trade towers from the street. For some reason it made me very nervous

[jocko699]

I always stay at the Sheraton Suites in Weehawken. There is a boat landing right there and we take it across the Hudson to Mid-town

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by the little guy

There are also significantly more BC races now than when it was last at Belmont. Two days as well as opposed to one when last in NYC.

Thst would just make it a bigger failure in NY. 2 days of empty seats rather than one.

It isn't an accident that the last BC in NY was just before they expanded to two days. Both NYRA management and the BC know what an embarrassment a BC Friday in NY would be.

[Frost king]

The biggest fear in that the BC has about the East Coast, is the same that sacked the Monmouth edition. Those monsoon rains have left a lasting impression on the people making the decisions. This weekend is all about the “The Beautiful People with the Sacks Full of Money.” They put up with us, because we put the money through the windows and buy the seats. Otherwise, if they could, they wouldn’t give a rat’s ass about the “UNWASHED.”

[sour grapes]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

Thst would just make it a bigger failure in NY. 2 days of empty seats rather than one.

It isn't an accident that the last BC in NY was just before they expanded to two days. Both NYRA management and the BC know what an embarrassment a BC Friday in NY would be.

belmont will have a breeders cup soon,and as a regular i wouldnt mind a 25k attendance.Their is no hiding your west coast bias.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by sour grapes

belmont will have a breeders cup soon,and as a regular i wouldnt mind a 25k attendance.Their is no hiding your west coast bias.

I have been the biggest critic here of BC's at Del Mar. And I have ZERO problem moving it out of Santa Anita this year to CD because we don't have our act together on safety. That's not West Coast bias.

Belmont is actually my favorite track. It is beautiful and big and an unforgettable experience. It also happens that it has no basis hosting championship races in late October (a judgment the BC and NYRA have seemingly agreed with for the past 14 years). And we know it ain't hosting anything soon- the next BC up for bids is 2022 and NYRA hasn't even been bidding lately.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

I have been the biggest critic here of BC's at Del Mar. And I have ZERO problem moving it out of Santa Anita this year to CD because we don't have our act together on safety. That's not West Coast bias.

True. Again, Del Mar ticket sales were $15.4 mm (gross), the second highest in the event's history. Total handle was $170.5 mm, second only to the 2010 BC at CD which had one additional BC race (14 vs 13). On-track handle at DMR easily exceeded the prior-year numbers at SA. Furthermore, the Del Mar event generated $4.1 mm in net operating income, a record for the BC entity. And it gets better, in 2014, the BC lost $3.5 mm (or roughly a $1 mm loss when adjusted for higher sponsorship revenue trends). Where were these races held in 2014? Santa Anita.

You don't have a West Coast bias; you have a SA bias (amazingly scenic place, I admit).

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike

True. Again, Del Mar ticket sales were $15.4 mm (gross), the second highest in the event's history. Total handle was $170.5 mm, second only to the 2010 BC at CD which had one additional BC race (14 vs 13). On-track handle at DMR easily exceeded the prior-year numbers at SA. Furthermore, the Del Mar event generated $4.1 mm in net operating income, a record for the BC entity. And it gets better, in 2014, the BC lost $3.5 mm (or roughly a $1 mm loss when adjusted for higher sponsorship revenue trends). Where were these races held in 2014? Santa Anita.

You don't have a West Coast bias; you have a SA bias (amazingly scenic place, I admit).

Even that is silly. I like going to Del Mar a lot more than I do Santa Anita. (And Hollywood was really "my" track.)

Having said that, like Andy, I still don't trust Del Mar's numbers.

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

Even that is silly. I like going to Del Mar a lot more than I do Santa Anita. (And Hollywood was really "my" track.)

Having said that, like Andy, I still don't trust Del Mar's numbers.

Don't put words in my mouth. I don't trust attendance numbers. Big difference.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

Even that is silly. I like going to Del Mar a lot more than I do Santa Anita. (And Hollywood was really "my" track.)

Having said that, like Andy, I still don't trust Del Mar's numbers.

The numbers are audited and the y/y change in revenue on the tax return (Form 990) pretty much matches the audited financials. Therefore, I believe your position is incorrect, and I think you know that...just digging in on an incorrect hypothesis that was never based on the financials.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by the little guy

Don't put words in my mouth. I don't trust attendance numbers. Big difference.

I was in attendance, but it was my first time at Del Mar for live racing, so I have no perspective (I suspect you do). But I will say the on-track handle results seemed supportive of the reported attendance numbers. In any case, my only point was the 2017 DMR BC was a financial success, contrary to the claims of the other poster.

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike

I was in attendance, but it was my first time at Del Mar for live racing, so I have no perspective (I suspect you do). But I will say the on-track handle results seemed supportive of the reported attendance numbers. In any case, my only point was the 2017 DMR BC was a financial success, contrary to the claims of the other poster.

No reason to doubt your numbers. Attendance numbers are pretty much always inflated. It is what it is.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike

I was in attendance, but it was my first time at Del Mar for live racing, so I have no perspective (I suspect you do). But I will say the on-track handle results seemed supportive of the reported attendance numbers. In any case, my only point was the 2017 DMR BC was a financial success, contrary to the claims of the other poster.

There's one data point that indicates it may have been successful-- the BC is going back there. Obviously if they took a bath (like they did several times in New York) they wouldn't.

But however they made that money, they didn't make it from people showing up at the event. The crowd was sparse and I documented it here on this website with numerous pictures (and the TVG hosts corroborated my statements, inviting people to come on out because there was nobody there). And really, that's a very bad look for the BC-- a full grandstand is part of the ambience.

[classhandicapper]

It seems to me it's kind of difficult to equalize for all the factors that can impact attendance, handle, expenses, and income from year to year. The BC and the tracks need to crunch those numbers and figure out what they think is best for themselves.

As a fan, I've been to a bunch of BCs all over the county going back to Proud Truth at Aqueduct. As a fan, the best ones were in warm weather locations like GP and SA. At a few a froze my ass off. Even AQU was preferable to those because it was built for cold weather.

So if live attendance, selling premium tickets, souvenirs etc.. is considered a vital part of the overall success, it should probably be held in warm weather locations or at winterized tracks. If handle swamps other considerations, then with internet wagering it may not matter and I'd prefer they rotate more.