Santa Anita can't even fill cal-bred stakes

[dilanesp]

Remember when state bred stakes cards like the California Cup and the Maryland Million drew big competitive fields?

On Saturday, Santa Anita held one, and several of the stakes drew 5 or 6 horses.

[cj]

Tracks need to change how they card races. Horsemen won't like it because they like six horse fields...or five or four. But they can and will adapt eventually. There is no need to run the same conditions on turf for males and females, for example. Females are perfectly capable of competing against males. Give them a weight break and card one race.

This doesn't just apply to statebred stakes races. You don't need non winners of two lifetime claimers for males and females, and then non winners of three for both, and so on. All this stuff can be combined with weight breaks and alternate claiming prices for sex and age differences.

[tucker6]

Originally Posted by cj

Tracks need to change how they card races. Horsemen won't like it because they like six horse fields...or five or four. But they can and will adapt eventually. There is no need to run the same conditions on turf for males and females, for example. Females are perfectly capable of competing against males. Give them a weight break and card one race.

This doesn't just apply to statebred stakes races. You don't need non winners of two lifetime claimers for males and females, and then non winners of three for both, and so on. All this stuff can be combined with weight breaks and alternate claiming prices for sex and age differences.

I may be asking a silly question, but does TimeFormUS distinguish between male/female races when you do your figure making, and does truly mixing the sexes in races change those numbers long term? I wouldn't think so, but...

[macguy]

How about making the conditions for races even simpler?

Remember when a condition for a race used to read "For 3 year old and up $15,000 claimers."

Most of the time, you now need an English degree to try and figure out if your horse is eligible or not.

[cj]

Originally Posted by tucker6

I may be asking a silly question, but does TimeFormUS distinguish between male/female races when you do your figure making, and does truly mixing the sexes in races change those numbers long term? I wouldn't think so, but...

No, we don't distinguish.

For the most part males are a few lengths faster than females of the same class. What you do, as an example, is make a NW2 lifetime claimer 5k for males and 7.5k (or 10k) for females...solved. There are so many things you can do to get bigger fields with a little imagination. But of course horsemen will fight against it tooth and nail. They want 5 and 6 horse fields.

[cj]

Originally Posted by macguy

How about making the conditions for races even simpler?

Remember when a condition for a race used to read "For 3 year old and up $15,000 claimers."

Most of the time, you now need an English degree to try and figure out if your horse is eligible or not.

Exactly right, and it is all catering to horsemen. The more different conditions you have the more you are inviting small fields. Also, racing secretaries are hamstrung by having to card X number of races in most jurisdictions.

[fiznow]

Originally Posted by macguy

How about making the conditions for races even simpler?

Remember when a condition for a race used to read "For 3 year old and up $15,000 claimers."

Most of the time, you now need an English degree to try and figure out if your horse is eligible or not.

I agree, also for a handicapper it's very important to understand the conditions. And I agree too to make races more open. F.e. more races in which it doesn't matter how many races a horse has won.

[Arapola]

Why doesn't Cali offer State bred NW's Alllowance of 2 other than's and so on?
They can also offer State Bred Starter Alw and Hcp's.
I guess they are just short of Horses.

[Tom]

Why promote inferior horses with special conditions for them?

Just card $2500 claimers.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Arapola

Why doesn't Cali offer State bred NW's Alllowance of 2 other than's and so on?
They can also offer State Bred Starter Alw and Hcp's.
I guess they are just short of Horses.

Yep. They used to do all that stuff.

[thespaah]

Originally Posted by cj

Tracks need to change how they card races. Horsemen won't like it because they like six horse fields...or five or four. But they can and will adapt eventually. There is no need to run the same conditions on turf for males and females, for example. Females are perfectly capable of competing against males. Give them a weight break and card one race.

This doesn't just apply to statebred stakes races. You don't need non winners of two lifetime claimers for males and females, and then non winners of three for both, and so on. All this stuff can be combined with weight breaks and alternate claiming prices for sex and age differences.

I have always wondered why the sexes were separated for turf races.
Ass we look through history, we can find many instances where fillies and mares on grass are competitive with male horses. And in some cases superior turf runners.
Make it 5 lbs for 4 yo and under fillies and 3 lbs for older.

[thespaah]

Originally Posted by cj

Exactly right, and it is all catering to horsemen. The more different conditions you have the more you are inviting small fields. Also, racing secretaries are hamstrung by having to card X number of races in most jurisdictions.

Again, government mandates trump the practicalities of the industry.
And of course the constant carping by horsemen's groups.
I would like just once to see a racing jurisdiction put down its foot and set terms and conditions that are "take it or leave it".....
let the horsemen's associations ( unions I call them) complain.
What are they going to do? Quit the business?.....Sure.
And if they threaten to move their stock to another state? Let them. Lifetime ban. Have at it.

[woodbinepmi]

I used to play basketball with a certain trainer who just won a big race in Baltimore a couple weeks ago. One day we had a heated discussion about the track, his statement was that if it wasn't for the horseman we wouldn't have horseracing. Being a horseman myself, I agreed with him, but he couldn't or wouldn't see it from the other side of the coin. Trying to explain to him that if it wasn't for the track management we would still be running straightaways in Carencro on Sunday mornings, instead of nice grandstands and stalls with fans in them. He didn't want any part of that. It's like beating your head against the wall sometimes. Some people only want things their way and no other.

[Tom]

Tell your friend to take a look at Finger Lakes.
A whole lot of horsemen are going to face a tough reality in the coming moths.

FL will probably close and they will be looking for other track where their cheap state breds can make them money. And you know what, not one bettor in the are will have to miss a day of betting.

We might need SOME trainers to have racing, but we sure do not need ALL of them.

[castaway01]

There were 50% fewer races run in 2015 than in 1989. Even more stunning, there were 21% fewer races run in 2015 than in 2009. If horsemen haven't grasped the reality that the number of opportunities for racing are dropping rapidly already, they're headed for a rude awakening (and probably a new profession) soon.