Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board

Go Back   Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board > Thoroughbred Horse Racing Discussion > General Racing Discussion


Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 9 votes, 4.56 average.
Old 09-26-2008, 01:22 PM   #1
Stevie Belmont
Registered User
 
Stevie Belmont's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Meadowlands
Posts: 1,908
Goodbye Mud Calks At Meadowlands

Jockey Club bans front toe grabs and or mud calks for the upcoming Meadowlands meet due to safety issues.

http://www.thebigm.com/racingNewsDetail.asp?newsid=8202
__________________
http://www.thoroughbredzone.com
Stevie Belmont is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-26-2008, 05:13 PM   #2
ldiatone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: west view, pa. now Lancaster, Ca.
Posts: 3,382
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie Belmont
Jockey Club bans front toe grabs and or mud calks for the upcoming Meadowlands meet due to safety issues.

http://www.thebigm.com/racingNewsDetail.asp?newsid=8202
i can understand maybe toe grabs but mud calks???
__________________
Buy Sam a drink and get His dog one Too--->mlang

and now in Lancaster, CA.
ldiatone is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-26-2008, 05:19 PM   #3
Norm
Registered User
 
Norm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 387
It seems a bit foolish to ban these traction devices at a track where early speed is so important. We may have to sit back and watch for awhile to see if the style of running changes.
__________________
Never blame corruption for anything that can be explained by incompetence.
Norm is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-26-2008, 05:46 PM   #4
onefast99
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 5,851
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm
It seems a bit foolish to ban these traction devices at a track where early speed is so important. We may have to sit back and watch for awhile to see if the style of running changes.
someone will redesign a shoe that is similar you can bet the house on that!
onefast99 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-26-2008, 08:29 PM   #5
CryingForTheHorses
In Front
 
CryingForTheHorses's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hollywood Florida
Posts: 2,735
Hey guys,Dont be so quick to hate the new rules,These things should have been banned ages ago. Take for instance toe grabs...Put your toes on a book and lean back on your foot...Hurts doesnt it!!...Mudcaulks are very dangerous to your own horse and others running in a race,Ive seen nasty tendon rips and holesin the legs due to mud caulks.
CryingForTheHorses is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-26-2008, 08:56 PM   #6
DanG
Easy Goer
 
DanG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Tampa,Florida
Posts: 3,440
Quote:
Originally Posted by McSchell_Racing
Hey guys,Dont be so quick to hate the new rules,These things should have been banned ages ago. Take for instance toe grabs...Put your toes on a book and lean back on your foot...Hurts doesnt it!!...Mudcaulks are very dangerous to your own horse and others running in a race,Ive seen nasty tendon rips and holesin the legs due to mud caulks
Thank you…

Indefensible imho.
__________________
Dan G
=======================
“We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.”
~ George Bernard Shaw
DanG is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-26-2008, 10:14 PM   #7
slewis
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,583
Quote:
Originally Posted by McSchell_Racing
Hey guys,Dont be so quick to hate the new rules,These things should have been banned ages ago. Take for instance toe grabs...Put your toes on a book and lean back on your foot...Hurts doesnt it!!...Mudcaulks are very dangerous to your own horse and others running in a race,Ive seen nasty tendon rips and holesin the legs due to mud caulks.
It's so great listening to the know-it-alls on this web site, like you sir.

You happen to be 100% incorrect about mud-calks. Tomorrow evening I will be posting statistics that PROVE just the opposite.
You see I, unlike the Jockey Club who has a bull shit study, have a 99% accurate and verifiable 9 (NINE) year study at NYRA tracks which PROVES that fewer horses break down wearing mud calks then when plain shod.
Problem is people like you make ridiculous statements claiming you "know" or have "seen", without any data to substantiate this nonsense.
Make sure you check this post tomorrow evening.. just dont try and dispute the (truth) data.
slewis is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-27-2008, 12:21 AM   #8
Stevie Belmont
Registered User
 
Stevie Belmont's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Meadowlands
Posts: 1,908
A lot of trainers never use them, they ruin there feet they say..

An of course some put them on everything..

Calks will be out in New York at the end of October as well. That will be interesting...
__________________
http://www.thoroughbredzone.com
Stevie Belmont is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-27-2008, 12:54 AM   #9
slewis
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,583
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie Belmont
A lot of trainers never use them, they ruin there feet they say..

An of course some put them on everything..

Calks will be out in New York at the end of October as well. That will be interesting...
Yeah, a lot of trainers say it messes up feet... guys like Woody Stephens, Mack Miller, Allen Jerkens, Nick Zito, Kiran McLaughlin, Bruce Levine.......??


Give me a break...........

Hard racetracks and poor confirmation breaks horses down... not mud calks, or bends, or toe grabs.
slewis is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-27-2008, 08:36 AM   #10
DanG
Easy Goer
 
DanG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Tampa,Florida
Posts: 3,440
Quote:
Originally Posted by slewis
It's so great listening to the know-it-alls on this web site, like you sir.

You happen to be 100% incorrect about mud-calks. .
You sound really well versed on this subject and certainly passionate.

I have zero studies to fall back on; but I feel if 1,000 pounds is slamming into me in a corner I wouldn’t want something gripping the surface preventing nature from absorbing the blow.

Same theory as the football player (ala Cadillac Williams) who gets their spikes caught and wrecks their knee. I always though it was the reason a collision sport like hockey had relatively few knee injuries because the skate gives with the blow.

As I said; no hard data to prove anything, just antidotal observations.
__________________
Dan G
=======================
“We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.”
~ George Bernard Shaw
DanG is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-27-2008, 09:51 AM   #11
Pcon04
Registered User
 
Pcon04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: s east ma
Posts: 270
Is that really true that mud calks will be outlawed in NY

at the end of october???Is there a blog or site that states it.

My friend my end up giving up the game he's all over CALKS!!!!

pcon
Pcon04 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-27-2008, 10:01 AM   #12
slewis
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,583
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanG
You sound really well versed on this subject and certainly passionate.

I have zero studies to fall back on; but I feel if 1,000 pounds is slamming into me in a corner I wouldn’t want something gripping the surface preventing nature from absorbing the blow.

Same theory as the football player (ala Cadillac Williams) who gets their spikes caught and wrecks their knee. I always though it was the reason a collision sport like hockey had relatively few knee injuries because the skate gives with the blow.

As I said; no hard data to prove anything, just antidotal observations.
Dan,

As I posted earlier.. tonight I will be posting a portion of my study dating back to 2001 which consists of EVERY dirt starter at a NYRA track (over 109,000) in which I personally observed (over 99%) and recorded in a database (I record bit, blinker type, tongue tie and shoe type info on each horse).
You, and others will see how their is NO additional risk and how mud calks are statistically safer (less breakdowns) then plain shod horses.
As far as your cadillac williams ex., why not look at the millions of turns and additional traction baseball players and football players have (which is why they ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL wear them)
Imagine a baseball player rounding third hard and heading for home, when he makes that turn and plants his right foot, without cleats (same as calks) that foot gives way... torn groin, ham string, knee.
This is the same principle I've discussed with trainers like McLaughlin, who personally asked me about them when he started training again.
When an athlete, any athlete, puts it's foot (or hoof ) down, they want ONLY vertical movement (and just a little of that) and NO HORIZONTAL movement. When you start moving horizontally (sliding), thats when the athlete (including the horse) risks injury.
I will also be explaining the REAL reason why they have implemented this change, which is strictly a political move.
Oh, by the way... a 5 yr study conducted on steeplechase races in Saratoga shows that 4.5% of starters get VANNED OFF. You dont van a horse off unless he's hurt. 4.5%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that's 4.5% vs about 0.4% for flat racing.
Think the "Concerned and caring Jockey Club" will ban steeplechase racing and threaten to "take graded status" from any track that conducts it??
These guys are an extension of the clowns we have in Washington... making and adjusting the rules for their own personal gains.
Tonight I'll tell all!
slewis is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-27-2008, 10:10 AM   #13
Tom
The Voice of Reason!
 
Tom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,446
They might be banned at NY, but they will be used. Remember when turn downs were banned and the friggin leading trainer got caught using them (actually, fingered by another trainer in the post parade). His comment was I do what is best for my horse. That was a long time ago, and Ihave never taken NYRA racing seriously since. Other tracks, I have suspiciouns, but NYRA, I am satisfied is crooked.
__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
Tom is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-27-2008, 10:21 AM   #14
DanG
Easy Goer
 
DanG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Tampa,Florida
Posts: 3,440
Quote:
Originally Posted by slewis
As far as your cadillac williams ex., why not look at the millions of turns and additional traction baseball players and football players have (which is why they ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL wear them)
Wow…

This REALLY hits home with you and I admire your enthusiasm.

Again; I don’t have your statistics, but I respectfully would disagree with your human analogy that cleats increase safety. They enhance power and performance and as someone who has played sports their entire life I’ve seen cleats wreck far more legs then sneakers for example.

Take care and enjoy your weekend with or without toe grabs!
__________________
Dan G
=======================
“We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.”
~ George Bernard Shaw
DanG is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-27-2008, 11:02 AM   #15
cj
@TimeformUSfigs
 
cj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,816
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanG
Wow…
They enhance power and performance and as someone who has played sports their entire life I’ve seen cleats wreck far more legs then sneakers for example.
How many serious athletes have you seen playing in sneakers on a dirt or grass surface?
cj is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Reply




Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

» Advertisement
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 1999 - 2023 -- PaceAdvantage.Com -- All Rights Reserved
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program
designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.