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Old 02-24-2021, 11:51 PM   #1
SG4
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This seems unfair to the highest degree

So the race in question is the 9th from Keeneland last October 11. I'm sure a fair amount of people may remember it, as Klaravich/Chad Brown runner Sound Money was hindered by a malfunctioning gate, but still ran a valiant 2nd. Stewards were in a tricky position far as the wagering decision went, but they ultimately declared him a non-starter. Obviously a number of bettors were upset by this, but I thought the more unjust situation was that the connections didn't get paid out any of the purse. Among jurisdictions, do stewards have the discretion after the race to declare a horse a non-starter for gambling purposes (purse only starter) but still eligible for purse, or once you're a non-starter are you just completely screwed?



So I didn't come across this until now, but apparently back in late Oct or November it appears the winner of this race tested positive for a banned substance and was DQ'ed from purse money. So now the declared winner of the race was the 3rd place finisher! If Sound Money had finished 1st that day he would've stayed as the victor since no harm no foul I take it, so now that he should be moved into 1st there isn't some sort of ruling available to make him the winner of the race for purse purposes?



I wonder if the horse who finished 1st that day had been DQ'ed for an in-race infraction, would they have moved Sound Money up to 1st or would he have been declared a non-starter too. Either way, it's just disappointing to see an ultimate result that so defies logic, and if that's the way the rules are written in stone with no ability to apply common sense, it's sad & hopefully not the same situation in every jurisdiction.
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Old 02-25-2021, 12:40 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by SG4 View Post
So the race in question is the 9th from Keeneland last October 11. I'm sure a fair amount of people may remember it, as Klaravich/Chad Brown runner Sound Money was hindered by a malfunctioning gate, but still ran a valiant 2nd. Stewards were in a tricky position far as the wagering decision went, but they ultimately declared him a non-starter. Obviously a number of bettors were upset by this, but I thought the more unjust situation was that the connections didn't get paid out any of the purse. Among jurisdictions, do stewards have the discretion after the race to declare a horse a non-starter for gambling purposes (purse only starter) but still eligible for purse, or once you're a non-starter are you just completely screwed?



So I didn't come across this until now, but apparently back in late Oct or November it appears the winner of this race tested positive for a banned substance and was DQ'ed from purse money. So now the declared winner of the race was the 3rd place finisher! If Sound Money had finished 1st that day he would've stayed as the victor since no harm no foul I take it, so now that he should be moved into 1st there isn't some sort of ruling available to make him the winner of the race for purse purposes?



I wonder if the horse who finished 1st that day had been DQ'ed for an in-race infraction, would they have moved Sound Money up to 1st or would he have been declared a non-starter too. Either way, it's just disappointing to see an ultimate result that so defies logic, and if that's the way the rules are written in stone with no ability to apply common sense, it's sad & hopefully not the same situation in every jurisdiction.
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Old 02-25-2021, 01:02 AM   #3
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By comparison:
Chad Brown....
As clean as they come.
The only time horseman Chad caught a medication fine ($250) it was for Omeprazole.........used to treat gastric ulcers.
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Old 02-25-2021, 02:31 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SG4 View Post
So the race in question is the 9th from Keeneland last October 11. I'm sure a fair amount of people may remember it, as Klaravich/Chad Brown runner Sound Money was hindered by a malfunctioning gate, but still ran a valiant 2nd. Stewards were in a tricky position far as the wagering decision went, but they ultimately declared him a non-starter. Obviously a number of bettors were upset by this, but I thought the more unjust situation was that the connections didn't get paid out any of the purse. Among jurisdictions, do stewards have the discretion after the race to declare a horse a non-starter for gambling purposes (purse only starter) but still eligible for purse, or once you're a non-starter are you just completely screwed?



So I didn't come across this until now, but apparently back in late Oct or November it appears the winner of this race tested positive for a banned substance and was DQ'ed from purse money. So now the declared winner of the race was the 3rd place finisher! If Sound Money had finished 1st that day he would've stayed as the victor since no harm no foul I take it, so now that he should be moved into 1st there isn't some sort of ruling available to make him the winner of the race for purse purposes?



I wonder if the horse who finished 1st that day had been DQ'ed for an in-race infraction, would they have moved Sound Money up to 1st or would he have been declared a non-starter too. Either way, it's just disappointing to see an ultimate result that so defies logic, and if that's the way the rules are written in stone with no ability to apply common sense, it's sad & hopefully not the same situation in every jurisdiction.
So you wanted to screw over the win bettors because you hit your exotics on the horse with the unfair start?

If a horse that doesn't get a fair start and wins the race, that is a tricky situation and I would think the right result is to let it stands, any other result should be 100% refund.
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Old 02-25-2021, 05:30 AM   #5
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another 'unfair' aspect of this is if it happened in 10 different states, you might get 10 different rulings. It might be a good time for some sort of uniform rules across the country.
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Old 02-25-2021, 06:24 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by SG4 View Post
So the race in question is the 9th from Keeneland last October 11. I'm sure a fair amount of people may remember it, as Klaravich/Chad Brown runner Sound Money was hindered by a malfunctioning gate, but still ran a valiant 2nd. Stewards were in a tricky position far as the wagering decision went, but they ultimately declared him a non-starter. Obviously a number of bettors were upset by this, but I thought the more unjust situation was that the connections didn't get paid out any of the purse. Among jurisdictions, do stewards have the discretion after the race to declare a horse a non-starter for gambling purposes (purse only starter) but still eligible for purse, or once you're a non-starter are you just completely screwed?



So I didn't come across this until now, but apparently back in late Oct or November it appears the winner of this race tested positive for a banned substance and was DQ'ed from purse money. So now the declared winner of the race was the 3rd place finisher! If Sound Money had finished 1st that day he would've stayed as the victor since no harm no foul I take it, so now that he should be moved into 1st there isn't some sort of ruling available to make him the winner of the race for purse purposes?



I wonder if the horse who finished 1st that day had been DQ'ed for an in-race infraction, would they have moved Sound Money up to 1st or would he have been declared a non-starter too. Either way, it's just disappointing to see an ultimate result that so defies logic, and if that's the way the rules are written in stone with no ability to apply common sense, it's sad & hopefully not the same situation in every jurisdiction.


I don't even know that the rules are in any jurisdictions for these types of situations but the bolded part above makes no sense. I understand that the horse lost it's best chance to win the race so declaring him a non starter makes sense as frustrating as it may be for exotics bettors or place/show bettors etc. I might even go as far as to say that in this type of situation a horse should only be scratched from the results he could not attain (in other words scratched only from the win pool and the exotics with money on him on top), not the ones he did have a chance to attain. It would be a free ride, but why not, nobody's fault that the starting gate malfunctioned.

But why would the owner of the horse be punished for a starting gate malfunction? The horse ran, he ran 2nd he is entitled to the purse for finishing 2nd. To take away his purse money is not only stupid but is thievery.
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Old 02-25-2021, 01:11 PM   #7
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I don't even know that the rules are in any jurisdictions for these types of situations but the bolded part above makes no sense. I understand that the horse lost it's best chance to win the race so declaring him a non starter makes sense as frustrating as it may be for exotics bettors or place/show bettors etc. I might even go as far as to say that in this type of situation a horse should only be scratched from the results he could not attain (in other words scratched only from the win pool and the exotics with money on him on top), not the ones he did have a chance to attain. It would be a free ride, but why not, nobody's fault that the starting gate malfunctioned.

But why would the owner of the horse be punished for a starting gate malfunction? The horse ran, he ran 2nd he is entitled to the purse for finishing 2nd. To take away his purse money is not only stupid but is thievery.
That's a good question---what ARE the rules? If you're a nonbetting entrant and finish in a spot that gets purse money, do you get it or do you get nothing? I don't see why any owner would run if they didn't get the purse money that corresponds with where they finish, so I always thought they got paid.
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Old 02-25-2021, 06:50 PM   #8
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I understand that the horse lost it's best chance to win the race so declaring him a non starter makes sense as frustrating as it may be for exotics bettors or place/show bettors etc. I might even go as far as to say that in this type of situation a horse should only be scratched from the results he could not attain (in other words scratched only from the win pool and the exotics with money on him on top), not the ones he did have a chance to attain.

I completely agree with this idea far as how the parimutuel aspect should've been handled, but anything that seems to take a little bit of thought & technology always seems to be too much to handle for this industry.



I feel like the initial responses to my original post are missing what I find outrageous though...the fact that the winner was DQ'ed and now the 2nd place finisher isn't moved up to first for the purse. That's really what I cannot fathom being allowed.
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Old 02-25-2021, 08:19 PM   #9
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Nothing you can do. There is no perfect rule.
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Old 02-26-2021, 09:39 AM   #10
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One thing I can add. It's not at the discretion of the Stewards to award purse money or not. That's a decision that falls upon the race track itself.
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Old 02-26-2021, 12:38 PM   #11
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Unfortunately the rules are whatever they massage them to be.
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