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Old 09-27-2011, 03:59 PM   #46
jorcus
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Yes, The trouble seems to be with hind end. He pretty much Rabbit hops the whole race with the back end although the front end seems to go ok. Hard to tell if he ever changed to his right lead on the back stretch.

I am not a big backer of horses going from Poly to dirt off a serious race. Yes I know it's not impossible but I have seen a lot of short priced horses finish up the track making that move.


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Originally Posted by JustRalph
Weird gate on that one.
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Old 09-27-2011, 06:44 PM   #47
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My guess is that if he finds another soft spot and rates a little better he'll record a much faster figure than 80 on dirt assuming he likes it (maybe into the 90s). However, he's very unlikely to get those conditions again if they think they have a serious racehorse and want to test him. More likely he's going to have to outrun another quality speed horse to get the lead and then repulse a couple of bids on the turn or late. Right now, I think he's intriguing, but I'd probably be looking to bet against him if he faced top dirt horses.
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Old 09-27-2011, 07:02 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jorcus
Yes, The trouble seems to be with hind end. He pretty much Rabbit hops the whole race with the back end although the front end seems to go ok. Hard to tell if he ever changed to his right lead on the back stretch.

I am not a big backer of horses going from Poly to dirt off a serious race. Yes I know it's not impossible but I have seen a lot of short priced horses finish up the track making that move.
Poly to dirt at Churchill has resulted in a few big prices this year
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Old 09-27-2011, 07:57 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by papillon
anyway, i have a feeling that if hansen had done this in ny, he'd be hailed the next jesus-horse.
No...I'd still be pointing out how slow he was running late...

And if the jock was asking him late (which, apparently, he was), do you really think he would have run markedly faster? I don't.

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Old 09-27-2011, 10:53 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustRalph
Poly to dirt at Churchill has resulted in a few big prices this year
Yeah, and you are STILL celebrating, right?
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Old 09-28-2011, 03:40 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by toussaud
his pedigree is quite interesting.

Tapit can get you a good dirt horse, but the horses he throws seem to really do take to the turf/polytrack

even more interesting is his damside. The exact opposite. They are all dirt horses. HIs dam, his half sister, heck even sir cat if i am not mistaken is the sire of surf cat, the old Bruce Headly horse that hit an absolute brick wall in California the day they went from dirt to polytrack.

Looking at the overall picture i don't think the dirt would be my biggest concern with him. it's there but it's not by biggest concern. The talent level is my biggest concern.


How Dr. Hansen got Tapit to cover his ex-$5k claimer is beyond me....did he provide some free pain management treatment sessions for the stallion's owners.?
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Old 09-28-2011, 07:11 AM   #52
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How Dr. Hansen got Tapit to cover his ex-$5k claimer is beyond me....did he provide some free pain management treatment sessions for the stallion's owners.?
Make that two covers from Tapit for that mare.

On that same Kentucky Cup day card, two races prior to Hansen's win, Tapanna - a 3 year old full brother to Hansen - won a maiden special going a mile. He stalked 4-5 lengths back before taking command near the quarter pole.

Tapanna earned an 88 Beyer compared to Hansen's 80. He ran the mile in 1:38.33 compared to Hansen's 1:45.83 for the 1-1/16 miles. Fractions were much slower - 6f in 1:12.96 compared to 1:11.48 for Hansen.

Tapanna was not the favorite - a James Baker trained colt coming off a 2nd place finish at Saratoga went off at 6-5. Tapanna beat Baker's horse by 2-1/4, then it was 11 lengths back to 3rd place.

FYI, the Kentucky Cup Classic Beyer was 91.
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Old 11-02-2011, 08:28 PM   #53
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bump

Hansen "locked and loaded" for BC start:

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...ked-and-loaded
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Old 11-03-2011, 01:40 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
No...I'd still be pointing out how slow he was running late...

And if the jock was asking him late (which, apparently, he was), do you really think he would have run markedly faster? I don't.
hhmmm, maybe...

i watched the race in person, and i've watched the replay a dozen times--i agree with tom lamarra that the horse was on cruise control--if you and others disagree, fine.

btw, how many times did you count that he was whipped in the stretch in all that serious late asking of which you speak?

i counted a whopping 4 times that the jock went to the whip (left handed) at the top of the stretch after the turn (where he had gone to it right handed few times in quick succession, as the other horses seemed on the verge of catching up), then it seemed to me that he sat pretty still until he twirled the whip as they crossed the finish line.

i don't know if hansen would have gone faster if seriously asked late. based on what i saw, he wasn't seriously asked ever in that race--he ran his own race from start to finish.

but i do know that for a second lifetime start, and for a start that came only 2 weeks after his previous race, and for a race that went 23.8, 23. 1, and 24.1 for the the first three quarters, and the fact that many two year olds have trouble maintaining speed for longer than 6-7 furlongs (because they are still just wee little babies after all)--the race was pretty impressive, and plenty of folks who get paid to tell people what they think about races, agree with me on that. as i said before, if you don't agree, fine.

but i also still feel that the level of poo-pooing the horse and the race in this thread was not reasonable, nor was it rational (to paraphrase one of the posters), it was disproportionate. and based on comments by those same people regarding other horses in other threads, a tad hypocritical too. but i am happy that i provided so many of you source to pile on and earn points in your quest to "win the internet" and bond with each other. you've got a long way to go to catch up with 4 chan but you'll get there eventually.

to the pedant calling me a beginner--i've been around horses and tracks since i was baby (foolish pleasure and I were born on the same exact day in the same exact year). pro-tip: the dixie union colt is far more likely to cause the general public to loose money and faith in this sport, than hansen is, given that dixie unions don't tend to like to go very long at all. you might want to add pedigree analayis to your fair and balanced pedantry next time (but hey, union rags raced well in NY going 6 furlongs, and breeding...well, pish posh, i know right?).

to the person who made the comment about horses "becoming white"-- i acknowledged that hansen is a grey in my post. but all greys progressively fade with age, even dark ones like monarchos--here he is then: http://www.homeonthenorthshore.com/Monarchos.html (handsome fellow, huh?), and here he is now: http://www.bloodhorse.com/stallion-r...39&origin=link (that's "white" in my book).

and here is hansen: http://www.horseracingnation.com/horse/Hansen (he's only a smidge away from "white" now, so maybe by the time the KY derby roles around, he will be even whiter, ergo, to the vast unwashed multitudes both denigrated and protected by the same posters in this thread (and sometimes even in the same post), he'll be the "white horse flying on the front.") i realize that hansen will always officially be a grey, but that doesn't mean he won't really be white. it's kind of like cherokee purple tomatoes, they aren't really purple tbh, they're red, but they're classified as purple in seed catalogs. funny how that works, huh?

anywho--i'll take my 10-1 on hansen in the BCJ and full responsibility for misleading the millions of people who never saw my post about the possibility that, should hansen turn out to be the real deal come TC time, that they're in for treat and in danger of losing their hearts. gosh darn, who would have thought that little old me could singlehandedly disillusion a nation....

at 10-1
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Old 11-03-2011, 01:49 AM   #55
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I'm not a big believer in Hansen. I still think poly performances can be blown out of proportion and this may likely be the case with Hansen. To me, and you can argue as you have above, he hasn't proven anything to me.

Creative Cause for me. Excelled in last race going 2 turns and has favorable sheets pattern leading into this race. I think I'll likely get 7-2 or 4-1 on him...Union Rags will be at ML and I do think Hansen will be bet down to 5-1 or 6-1.
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Old 11-03-2011, 02:22 AM   #56
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he didn't appear to tire badly to me. I thought he finished well on a tiring surface. That is a solid finish without even considering that he blitzed the field from start to finish.

However, I prefer horses who can relax and rate. It takes more energy to blaze through fractions without relaxing.

he did some good things in the race and a bad thing. Nothing bad enough that I would toss him, but potentially problematic if it continues or worsens.

he is pumped up, but doesn't seem to be as tall as some of the classic distance horses.

I do not count the turfway track against him at all. However the high knee on the right lead and the hard way of going fit a poly track if turfway's surface is actually kind.

Maker also had a bunch of horses explode that day besides Hansen... He won the allowance by 7, the MSW horse that won the mile in very good time, and later he won the 100k sprint with a horse who ran a good 6f time.

If he does manage to go out on his own in the 2nd quarter in this race, it should hurt some of the other all out speed, and aid those who can relax and stalk those secondary speed horses and go get Hansen at the top of the stretch.
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Old 11-03-2011, 09:44 AM   #57
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I don't know who is going to go with him early. If he makes a somewhat easy lead, watch out. He was extremely visually impressive at TP on KY Cup day. I'm looking forward to this one.
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Old 11-03-2011, 11:52 PM   #58
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Will he move forward ? I think it's probable. My main play will be Drill; maybe a little sump'm-sump'm for Hansen.
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Old 11-04-2011, 12:46 AM   #59
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Papillon ,albeit most know Hansen is officially grey . he is rare though . You just don't see that many two year olds on the track at age two looking that white.
I also want to mention since you brought up knowledge and breeding that
Union Rags may have some stamina from Tempo . I watched Tempo's dam many years ago and that one could run all day. We'll have to wait and see .
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Old 11-05-2011, 05:33 PM   #60
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how you like them apples?
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