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Old 02-05-2009, 06:39 PM   #31
Tom
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I guess that explains Invasor (He is the best!)
He was no champion, he was just wormed!
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Old 02-05-2009, 07:06 PM   #32
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From what I understand, if Beyer would actually like to get the barn tour from Wolfson that was offered on the radio show, he'll have to go get him from his car where he conducts most of his daily business.
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Old 02-05-2009, 07:08 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by the little guy
Dutrow and Wolfson have probably come close with some other non-champions ( at least before they got them.....and wormed them and cleaned their teeth ).
That's just plan ignorance on your part... Dutrow, nor did Wolfson ever say that was the reason for improvement... your taking small comments and trying to make something seem bigger than it is... typical bitter attitude if you ask me... you must have missed the main comments Dutrow made, or just chose to grasp onto the meaningless information that he said, either way, you wiffed...
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Old 02-05-2009, 07:11 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by ralph_the_cat
That's just plan ignorance on your part... Dutrow, nor did Wolfson ever say that was the reason for improvement... your taking small comments and trying to make something seem bigger than it is... typical bitter attitude if you ask me... you must have missed the main comments Dutrow made, or just chose to grasp onto the meaningless information that he said, either way, you wiffed...
...or, he completely understood the comments and knows from decades of betting horses that it was complete and utter bullshit.

He may not have used those specific comments this time, but they have certainly been used in the past.
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Old 02-05-2009, 07:20 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by ralph_the_cat
That's just plan ignorance on your part... Dutrow, nor did Wolfson ever say that was the reason for improvement... your taking small comments and trying to make something seem bigger than it is... typical bitter attitude if you ask me... you must have missed the main comments Dutrow made, or just chose to grasp onto the meaningless information that he said, either way, you wiffed...

Good luck with all that.

Dutrow specifically was quoted in DRF as saying that, among other things, he wormed the horse and cleaned his teeth.

I made nothing up and only repeated what he said to a reporter.
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Old 02-05-2009, 07:29 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by the little guy
Good luck with all that.

Dutrow specifically was quoted in DRF as saying that, among other things, he wormed the horse and cleaned his teeth.

I made nothing up and only repeated what he said to a reporter.
I never said you made anything up, so good luck with that.... you took the most meaningless comments of dutrows and used them... Dutrows biggest improvements he mentioned were the switch to a bar shoe for training, a lighter training schedule after running 8 races in 5 months as a 2 yo, not to mention a weight gain of more than 50lbs... but if you think the wormer and teeth comments were the main factors and you want to ignore the other comments Dutrow said, then fine, so be it, but that doesnt say much about you... some people are just looking to twist things up, you are clearly one of them.... you're just trying to have fun with it, thats fine... one just cant take you serious...
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Old 02-05-2009, 07:47 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by ralph_the_cat
I never said you made anything up, so good luck with that.... you took the most meaningless comments of dutrows and used them... Dutrows biggest improvements he mentioned were the switch to a bar shoe for training, a lighter training schedule after running 8 races in 5 months as a 2 yo, not to mention a weight gain of more than 50lbs... but if you think the wormer and teeth comments were the main factors and you want to ignore the other comments Dutrow said, then fine, so be it, but that doesnt say much about you... some people are just looking to twist things up, you are clearly one of them.... you're just trying to have fun with it, thats fine... one just cant take you serious...

Here are the facts....Dutrow said them......I repeated them.

You don't like it? Tough. He said it. So, you think other comments are more relevent. Good for you.

Personally, I found these to be the more relevent comments. Maybe it's because I have heard others same the same thing right after a horse runs unusually well. Must be a coincidence.
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Old 02-06-2009, 09:39 AM   #38
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TLG,

Dutrow listed a number of other things he thought were wrong with the horse that he and the vet worked on. Whenever he has one of these big move ups that get some publicity he almost always gives the same list of problems. (problems behind etc..)
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Old 02-06-2009, 10:37 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by the little guy
Here are the facts....Dutrow said them......I repeated them.

You don't like it? Tough. He said it. So, you think other comments are more relevent. Good for you.

Personally, I found these to be the more relevent comments. Maybe it's because I have heard others same the same thing right after a horse runs unusually well. Must be a coincidence.
The only fly in this ointment is that TOFP didn't run unusually well.

jdl
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Old 02-06-2009, 10:37 AM   #40
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Check out this quote from Pompa

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/hor...ill&id=3886387

"The purse structure is very weak at Calder and that's why they have to run their horses so much," he said. "They'll run them seven, eight times over a short period of time because that's the only way they can make any money. Then, if you take a horse away from an average Calder trainer like O'Connell and turn them over to a Dutrow or a Bobby Frankel you should expect them to move up in the Beyer numbers."

Interesting take I suppose
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Old 02-06-2009, 10:39 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by jonnielu
The only fly in this ointment is that TOFP didn't run unusually well.

jdl

This is moronic even for you.....and that's saying a LOT.
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Old 02-06-2009, 02:28 PM   #42
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ABSURD

What do you consider ''unusually well''.
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Old 02-07-2009, 11:54 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by cj
I'm certainly willing to listen. Can you name a few?
I'd have to spend some time doing research because I can't think of any famous ones off the top of my head. Then again, I can't think of many routers like that off the top of my head either.

Most 2YOs start out sprinting. So the true high quality sprinters are usually playing their game right from the start. The routers are disadvantaged until they start carding longer races for them later in the season. Also, even if a router doesn't come out until later in the season, many trainers start out at 6F-7F and slowly stretch them out to where they belong. That's one reason you'll see more routers get really good later on. I don't think it's just a physical development issue. But for every "experienced router" that explodes forward, I would guess there's probably one (or at least close to one) sprinter that exploded forward. Both are rare. Very good horses usually show their talent quickly if they are spotted appropriately right from the start and handled by a good horseman.

I obviously think there are a lot of potential issues in the TOFP case that contributed, but it's not impossible that part of it is that he's a very good sprinter that has been developing a bit all along, but it was hidden by 4 wasted races in routes and on the turf. He did make a huge jump up from his first two starts to his 3rd like he was going to get better, but was soon switched to routes.
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Last edited by classhandicapper; 02-07-2009 at 11:58 AM.
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Old 02-07-2009, 01:33 PM   #44
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TOO FAR ? TOO FAST ?

Richard Dutrow will attempt to stretch-out This Ones For Phil in The Fountain Of Youth at GP,a one turn mile.
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