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Old 05-06-2018, 11:34 AM   #1
Grits
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China Horse Club

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/04/s...cky-derby.html

I wanted to learn, as I didn't know, who the China Horse Club is. Well, gentlemen, it's a whole lot of millionaires funneling money through St.Lucia.

Quote:
"Mr. Harrington said the club kept its membership private to shield members from potential public scrutiny amid a Chinese government led anti-corruption campaign which has “created a culture of fear where people didn’t want to be seen to be spending money in a way that may be seen as excessive.”
I had noted the number of horses they had running on Oaks and Derby Day. Ten runners with all but three in partnership with Winstar Farm.

Years ago, Bill Casner (the horseman & businessman) and Kenny Troutt (the businessman) dissolved their partnership in Winstar. Mr.Troutt has been the sole owner since 2010.

Mr. Teo would love to create a horseracing mecca in China, however, this is proving difficult as betting there remains illegal. .... My own thought was.... dude, you're kidding, right? With China's nasty air quality how would horses breathe much less compete?

Anyway, it kinda troubles me when a club of 200 elite, secretive folks from China start to pour money into horses we raise and race. .... Godolphin, one person. Juddmonte, one person. Coolmore, three people. That's a bit different.

Everything can be bought. One day the China Horse Club may want a farm/breeding operation in central Kentucky. .... Winstar
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Old 05-06-2018, 01:32 PM   #2
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Is there money different then other peoples money?

So what if they owned it. I heard what the owner said in the press conference, was very compelling. I dont see how expanding racing is anything but a good thing.
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Old 05-06-2018, 01:51 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grits View Post
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/04/s...cky-derby.html

I wanted to learn, as I didn't know, who the China Horse Club is. Well, gentlemen, it's a whole lot of millionaires funneling money through St.Lucia.

I had noted the number of horses they had running on Oaks and Derby Day. Ten runners with all but three in partnership with Winstar Farm.

Mr. Teo would love to create a horseracing mecca in China, however, this is proving difficult as betting there remains illegal.

Anyway, it kinda troubles me when a club of 200 elite, secretive folks from China start to pour money into horses we raise and race. .... Godolphin, one person. Juddmonte, one person. Coolmore, three people. That's a bit different.
Does Hong Kong,an "autonomous territory" count as China?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMB@BP View Post
Is there money different then other peoples money?

So what if they owned it. I heard what the owner said in the press conference, was very compelling. I dont see how expanding racing is anything but a good thing.
The issue is not who the investors are,but how was the financing obtained,who knows the origin of the capital now being invested,as it first gets churned through offshore accounts,and than gets laundered via an elaborate horse partnership.It's done in other ways too like high end real estate,art,or sports franchises.
Consider:

“Behind every great fortune there is a crime.”
— Honoré de Balzac
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Old 05-06-2018, 01:54 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quesmark View Post

“Behind every great fortune there is a crime.”
— Honoré de Balzac
no one should own anything it seems.
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Old 05-06-2018, 01:58 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMB@BP View Post
no one should own anything it seems.
Depends on where the dividing line is between legitimate business and "great fortune"...
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Old 05-06-2018, 02:33 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Quesmark View Post
Depends on where the dividing line is between legitimate business and "great fortune"...
In the era of socialism, that feels like 50k
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Old 05-06-2018, 05:01 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quesmark View Post
Does Hong Kong,an "autonomous territory" count as China?

The issue is not who the investors are,but how was the financing obtained,who knows the origin of the capital now being invested,as it first gets churned through offshore accounts,and than gets laundered via an elaborate horse partnership.It's done in other ways too like high end real estate,art,or sports franchises.
Consider:

“Behind every great fortune there is a crime.”
— Honoré de Balzac
You and I agree, Quesmark.

This is a lengthy piece that three journalists worked on and nothing about it flatters Winstar. Nothing. The China principals who were contacted all had "no comment." Don't care how it is spun this is money laundering.
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Old 05-06-2018, 05:26 PM   #8
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You know how to make a small fortune in horse racing?
Invest a large one.
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Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
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Old 06-07-2018, 08:12 PM   #9
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Seems like China Horse Club has off loaded some Justify risk on a well known financial personage:

Quote:
The New York Times reported Thursday[6/7/2018] that Soros Fund Management is the owner of SF Bloodstock and SF Racing Group, an international breeding and racing operation that was founded by the firm in 2008. Executives from Soros's investment firm oversee the operation.

Most recently, the firm has attracted unwanted media attention because of its 15% stake in breeding rights for the racing horse Justify...

Shortly after Justify won the Preakness, speculation swirled about a $60 million deal for his breeding rights involving American breeder Coolmore. However,some of Justify's owners have said any deal may need to wait until September, when the owners will face less onerous capital gains tax requirements.

Through SF Racing and SF Bloodstock, Soros owns a vast collection of breeding and racing properties on several continents.

Excerpts from:
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...rown-contender
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Old 06-07-2018, 09:07 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quesmark View Post
Seems like China Horse Club has off loaded some Justify risk on a well known financial personage:
soros is a snake. Hope satan calls him home soon
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Old 06-07-2018, 11:50 PM   #11
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Lets dig a little deeper:
Quote:
WinStar Farm, one of North America’s leading thoroughbred racing and breeding operations, owns 60 percent of Justify’s breeding rights. China Horse Club owns 25 percent. A third group, a secretive entity that holds the remaining 15 percent, will remain out of the spotlight because it vigorously avoids any public attention. It is a company controlled by top employees of the billionaire investor George Soros.

Excerpt from:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/07/s...rge-soros.html

Last edited by Quesmark; 06-07-2018 at 11:51 PM.
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Old 06-08-2018, 07:17 AM   #12
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I read this article yesterday. The ownership of this horse already bothered me, then I found out that SF Bloodstock, who has been buying top Bloodstock for the past few years, and was only said to be some farm in Australia, turns out to be George Soros. He wanted it to be a secret, and those in the industry who knew did a good job of keeping the secret.

I couldn't care less which horse does it, I just hope Justify gets beaten tomorrow.
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Old 06-08-2018, 12:34 PM   #13
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What kind of nonsense is this?
Does any real player actually care about who owns these great animals or how they managed to acquire the money to purchase them? I'm not going to play a horse because of who own's it???

Since when are we concerned about an owner’s personality, or racing conditions half-way around the world. As far as I’m concerned the racing in Hong Kong makes racing in the States look trivial by comparison. As I’ve mentioned so often before, it doesn’t take a genius to recognize what a superior overall product the Hong Kong Jockey Club offers it patrons. Funny how the local racing jurisdictions know all too well about the HK racing model, yet refuse to make the positive changes necessary to attract and maintain its customer base.
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Old 06-08-2018, 03:07 PM   #14
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Justify wears red silks tomorrow.
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Old 06-08-2018, 04:59 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitro View Post
What kind of nonsense is this?
Does any real player actually care about who owns these great animals or how they managed to acquire the money to purchase them? I'm not going to play a horse because of who own's it???

Since when are we concerned about an owner’s personality, or racing conditions half-way around the world. As far as I’m concerned the racing in Hong Kong makes racing in the States look trivial by comparison. As I’ve mentioned so often before, it doesn’t take a genius to recognize what a superior overall product the Hong Kong Jockey Club offers it patrons. Funny how the local racing jurisdictions know all too well about the HK racing model, yet refuse to make the positive changes necessary to attract and maintain its customer base.
Speaking of nonsense, what does Hong Kong racing have to do with this?

Some people don't seem to understand that the horse doesn't actually take home the trophy and purse money, and instead it's the owners (and trainers) who receive those things.

So you don't care when someone you think is a cheat wins? What's it matter, you think?

It's not at all unusual to not want to see someone win that you don't like.

Soros I don't like at all. And I don't like 200 rich people owning a horse. And I don't like all the top horses and owners going to the 600+ horse stables of a handful of trainers, who then get all the Eclipses because, lo and behold, they actually end up with some top horses in there.

The BC took away their stakes program. The Bluebloods in charge of the money want it all to go to them, the elite owners and Breeders.

Wake up. What's going on is horrible for the sport. Yes, let's hope for all the feel-good stories to come out of this TC should Justify win.

Last edited by Fager Fan; 06-08-2018 at 05:03 PM.
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