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Old 05-12-2018, 11:31 PM   #31
pandy
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Actually, you should admire them.

If horseplayer solidarity were as strong as these jocks, it would produce some positive change...because all the whining and bitching certainly hasn't.
Agreed, this issue has been unresolved for a long time.
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Old 05-12-2018, 11:40 PM   #32
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Long Overdue

This situation with the scale of weights has been going on for a very long time. People are bigger now, on average, and so are jockeys, so the weight is a problem and a health risk. What the jockeys did today was necessary because NYRA is in New York State, and in New York, things change very slowly. The tracks have to get state approval for just about everything and the politicians drag their feet.

Here's an article about this subject, written by Bill Finley, which was published in the NY Daily News 18 years ago.

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/...ticle-1.892159
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Old 05-13-2018, 09:21 AM   #33
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So, most of the riders are trash you say?

How did you draw that conclusion about so many people?

What was your job description at the track that allowed you access to meet most of them?

You must travel around a lot.

How did I draw the conclusion I stated?

Well, when one makes a statement like that on an internet site where everyone posts anonymously, it means that they have enough experience with them (jocks) to draw the conclusion I stated or that they are a total fraud and never met a jockey in their lives.

There are a few people on here who know me well enough to know I'm not a fraud.

BTW, if you think I'm critical of the credibility of the jockeys in this sport, you should hear me talk about the trainers. These people are the BIGGEST pieces of shit walking the planet.
Would you like a list of trainers who married women working for them, then cheated with other women working for them? Then dumped the wife for another woman working for them?
Here is my short list:
EDITED OUT FOR YOUR PROTECTION

Last edited by PaceAdvantage; 05-13-2018 at 01:25 PM.
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Old 05-13-2018, 10:34 AM   #34
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How did I draw the conclusion I stated?

Well, when one makes a statement like that on an internet site where everyone posts anonymously, it means that they have enough experience with them (jocks) to draw the conclusion I stated or that they are a total fraud and never met a jockey in their lives.

There are a few people on here who know me well enough to know I'm not a fraud.

BTW, if you think I'm critical of the credibility of the jockeys in this sport, you should hear me talk about the trainers. These people are the BIGGEST pieces of shit walking the planet.
Would you like a list of trainers who married women working for them, then cheated with other women working for them? Then dumped the wife for another woman working for them?
Here is my short list:
****************
Wow ! Lololol.

You never answered my question about how you have met so many jocks and now trainers to lump all of the thousands of them into two neat categories. But that is OK. I really don't care. I know plenty about you already just from two posts.

Happy Mothers Day.

Last edited by PaceAdvantage; 05-13-2018 at 01:25 PM.
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Old 05-13-2018, 11:52 AM   #35
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Wow ! Lololol.

You never answered my question about how you have met so many jocks and now trainers to lump all of the thousands of them into two neat categories. But that is OK. I really don't care. I know plenty about you already just from two posts.

Happy Mothers Day.
I never answered your question?

What would you like? Specific stories? My resume of all the horses I've been associated with and the various tracks, trainers and jockeys I've done business with?

I'll make this more palatable for you:

I spent 17 years full time on Wall Street, about the same time in this industry and about 5 years full time in another unrelated industry.

There is ABSOLUTELY a disproportionate amount of trash in the racing industry then other businesses I've been associated with. It's not even close.

Here's one for you:
I left this sport approximately 6 years ago and during that time, didn't miss it a bit.
About a year ago, I got a call from an old client who introduced me to a new owner coming into the sport. He was a venture capitalist who buys and sells businesses so he's probably seen it all. He wanted to hire me. I had a sit down with this new owner and warned him that coming into this game and spending millions of dollars will expose him to a cast of lowlifes like he's never seen in other business ventures he's been in. He laughed at my statement.
A few weeks ago we were having dinner in Ocala and he says "Remember the sit down we had a year ago when you warned me about the character and credibility of people in this industry"? I laughed and said "of course".
He replied "Your warning was a significant understatement. 98% of everyone I meet lies to you and just tries to rob you".

Do you think he's the exception of new owners coming into this industry, or closer to the rule?
Happy MD to you too.
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Old 05-13-2018, 12:13 PM   #36
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BTW, if anyone has ever met these guys, and I've met most of them, you'd find they are the biggest trash on the planet (with the exception of a few, and I mean very few).
Long working hours, schedule changes, working out to maintain fitness, keeping weight with 1 meal a day, facing constant danger, facing the threat of serious paralytic type injury (not counting the usual strains, sprains, concussions, fractures), maybe getting to eat a piece of pizza or a burrito once every 5 years, gypsy lifestyle with lots of travelling away from family and kids, being able to remain in a good psychological frame of mind so horses will respond to you, working in every kind of weather from retina-burning sunlight to zero degree winter and muddy tracks----and due to short fields many sitting in the jockey's room with no rides, worrying about income.

Sounds like they have more work ethic, determination, resolve and discipline than the average couch-potato-complaining-horse-player and in most cases than the average working stiff out there in the world----and heck, there's a heck of a lot of "real trash" over on Wall Street, just because they are wearing a Rolex doesn't mean they aren't trash (and the drug addictions are pretty well storied).

Myself, I've always admired jockeys. Seem like truly disciplined, stoic people who know what it is to work hard and *earn a living* in the true sense of the word.

Last edited by clicknow; 05-13-2018 at 12:19 PM.
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Old 05-13-2018, 12:22 PM   #37
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I never answered your question?

What would you like? Specific stories? My resume of all the horses I've been associated with and the various tracks, trainers and jockeys I've done business with?

I'll make this more palatable for you:

I spent 17 years full time on Wall Street, about the same time in this industry and about 5 years full time in another unrelated industry.

There is ABSOLUTELY a disproportionate amount of trash in the racing industry then other businesses I've been associated with. It's not even close.

Here's one for you:
I left this sport approximately 6 years ago and during that time, didn't miss it a bit.
About a year ago, I got a call from an old client who introduced me to a new owner coming into the sport. He was a venture capitalist who buys and sells businesses so he's probably seen it all. He wanted to hire me. I had a sit down with this new owner and warned him that coming into this game and spending millions of dollars will expose him to a cast of lowlifes like he's never seen in other business ventures he's been in. He laughed at my statement.
A few weeks ago we were having dinner in Ocala and he says "Remember the sit down we had a year ago when you warned me about the character and credibility of people in this industry"? I laughed and said "of course".
He replied "Your warning was a significant understatement. 98% of everyone I meet lies to you and just tries to rob you".

Do you think he's the exception of new owners coming into this industry, or closer to the rule?
Happy MD to you too.
All I asked was your job description that gave you access to thousands of jockeys and trainers in order to draw your harsh opinions about so many people.

Last edited by Ruffian1; 05-13-2018 at 12:24 PM.
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Old 05-13-2018, 01:00 PM   #38
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Long working hours, schedule changes, working out to maintain fitness, keeping weight with 1 meal a day, facing constant danger, facing the threat of serious paralytic type injury (not counting the usual strains, sprains, concussions, fractures), maybe getting to eat a piece of pizza or a burrito once every 5 years, gypsy lifestyle with lots of travelling away from family and kids, being able to remain in a good psychological frame of mind so horses will respond to you, working in every kind of weather from retina-burning sunlight to zero degree winter and muddy tracks----and due to short fields many sitting in the jockey's room with no rides, worrying about income.

Sounds like they have more work ethic, determination, resolve and discipline than the average couch-potato-complaining-horse-player and in most cases than the average working stiff out there in the world----and heck, there's a heck of a lot of "real trash" over on Wall Street, just because they are wearing a Rolex doesn't mean they aren't trash (and the drug addictions are pretty well storied).

Myself, I've always admired jockeys. Seem like truly disciplined, stoic people who know what it is to work hard and *earn a living* in the true sense of the word.
Respectfully, you missed the part where I pointed out that if you move the scale of weights 7 lbs upward, you'll have a whole new bunch of people who gallop horses but tack 135 doing the same things these guys do to get to 117, trying to become jockeys.

The problem never goes away.
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Old 05-13-2018, 01:28 PM   #39
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Long working hours, schedule changes, working out to maintain fitness, keeping weight with 1 meal a day, facing constant danger, facing the threat of serious paralytic type injury (not counting the usual strains, sprains, concussions, fractures), maybe getting to eat a piece of pizza or a burrito once every 5 years, gypsy lifestyle with lots of travelling away from family and kids, being able to remain in a good psychological frame of mind so horses will respond to you, working in every kind of weather from retina-burning sunlight to zero degree winter and muddy tracks----and due to short fields many sitting in the jockey's room with no rides, worrying about income.

Sounds like they have more work ethic, determination, resolve and discipline than the average couch-potato-complaining-horse-player and in most cases than the average working stiff out there in the world----and heck, there's a heck of a lot of "real trash" over on Wall Street, just because they are wearing a Rolex doesn't mean they aren't trash (and the drug addictions are pretty well storied).

Myself, I've always admired jockeys. Seem like truly disciplined, stoic people who know what it is to work hard and *earn a living* in the true sense of the word.
Great post and very true.
Raising the scale of weights will only help all involved. The one problem mentioned already exists. But increasing the scale would help eliminate a large group of serious problems that exist. Seems like helping 99% of the problems is better than doing nothing because it won't help 100% of the problems.
I'm with you.

Last edited by Ruffian1; 05-13-2018 at 01:29 PM.
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Old 05-13-2018, 01:46 PM   #40
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Respectfully, you missed the part where I pointed out that if you move the scale of weights 7 lbs upward, you'll have a whole new bunch of people who gallop horses but tack 135 doing the same things these guys do to get to 117, trying to become jockeys.

The problem never goes away.
Looks like you missed my point.

That "whole new bunch of people who gallop horses tacking 135", who are disciplined and work dilligently to excel at what they do, are still going to be classified as "trash" by those who share your sweeping generalizations about an entire group of persons and the trainers they ride for..... and that's the part I don't get.

But I do understand that subjective opinions aren't really something that can be argued, and you are, of course, entitled to yours.

Last edited by clicknow; 05-13-2018 at 01:50 PM.
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Old 05-13-2018, 06:02 PM   #41
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My opinion of this industry's management AND employees lacking credibility and being trash is not just opinion and subjective. IT'S FACT.
Good guy / bad guy is simpleminded and more appropriate in cinematic fiction than in reality. Binary thinking is often sloppy thinking. Humans are shades of grey on a spectrum....that includes me, and it includes you. (I don't negate there are extremes of course.)

Some people will drive off the road to run over an animal; some will take a stray, injured animal to a veterinarian and pay all costs. Some are altruistic---- but only under a very narrow set of circumstances.

Jilted lovers will say you are scum.
Everyone who invites me to church and discovers I bet on horses tsk-tsks behind my back..... I am their idea of "trash".

If you are deemed by society as a good guy, you can (sometimes) get away with murder. If you are deemed trash, you can get taken out for jaywalking.

Structure and practices of an organization or a society, working to get it right won't be helped by over-personalizing. What is the point of claiming to be personally good or bad if involved and actively participating in a structure that is itself, a mess?

Better to put energy towards establishing strong policies and practices with teeth that keep things on an even keel.


In life, I find that the more "narrowly" people assign blame, the more their world view may be off kilter, I guess that's where the word narrow-minded comes from.

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Old 05-13-2018, 06:12 PM   #42
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....and yes, reviewing weights needs looking into, an idea whose time has come.
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Old 05-13-2018, 06:40 PM   #43
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And when we raise the weight by 10 pounds, don't we also create a new groups of riders facing the exact same challenges, just with new guys?

Frankly, I don't care what the weights are.
Just don't interfere with the product and the customers if you do.
What the jocks did yesterday was unacceptable.
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Old 05-14-2018, 09:00 AM   #44
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Old 05-14-2018, 10:19 AM   #45
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Long working hours, schedule changes, working out to maintain fitness, keeping weight with 1 meal a day, facing constant danger, facing the threat of serious paralytic type injury (not counting the usual strains, sprains, concussions, fractures), maybe getting to eat a piece of pizza or a burrito once every 5 years, gypsy lifestyle with lots of travelling away from family and kids, being able to remain in a good psychological frame of mind so horses will respond to you, working in every kind of weather from retina-burning sunlight to zero degree winter and muddy tracks----and due to short fields many sitting in the jockey's room with no rides, worrying about income.

Sounds like they have more work ethic, determination, resolve and discipline than the average couch-potato-complaining-horse-player and in most cases than the average working stiff out there in the world----and heck, there's a heck of a lot of "real trash" over on Wall Street, just because they are wearing a Rolex doesn't mean they aren't trash (and the drug addictions are pretty well storied).

Myself, I've always admired jockeys. Seem like truly disciplined, stoic people who know what it is to work hard and *earn a living* in the true sense of the word.
Anyone who doesn't think being a jockey and succeeding at it isn't extremely challenging is extremely naive. I think the jockey who doesn't have to go to extremes to maintain weight is a rarity. Also unlike other sports where contestants have to make weight jockeys are weighed after the event, not hours or the day before. If a boxer, wrestler, or weightlifter went to extremes to make a weigh in they can at least re-hydrate and get some nutrition in them before they have to compete, a jockey can't even do that.
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