DRF sold

[Afleet]

Originally Posted by cj

Anyone that was using that as a part of handicapping is probably broke by now.

Haven't used it in years, but I had an old computer program that used the DRF variant. I hit some monster bets w/those numbers. It worked best on claimers and tracks w/shippers from multiple different tracks. Lightly raced horses it didn't work on(which is most of today's horse). Friends Lake being one; hit the pick 3 multiple times. I remember it kicked out the winner of the Met Mile right on top at 40-50/1. It was in the slop and everyone I sat with at the track thought I was crazy. I was losing all day and fired the rest of my money in the pick 4. Suffice it to say I missed the pick 4 going 3 for 4 and it paid $300k or something like that. I can't remember for the life of me the name of that horse. This would have been in the 80's or 90's shipper from Woodbine, race was in the slop. I begged my dad to bet him ($2 better), but he wouldn't.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Afleet

Haven't used it in years, but I had an old computer program that used the DRF variant. I hit some monster bets w/those numbers. It worked best on claimers and tracks w/shippers from multiple different tracks. Lightly raced horses it didn't work on(which is most of today's horse). Friends Lake being one; hit the pick 3 multiple times. I remember it kicked out the winner of the Met Mile right on top at 40-50/1. It was in the slop and everyone I sat with at the track thought I was crazy. I was losing all day and fired the rest of my money in the pick 4. Suffice it to say I missed the pick 4 going 3 for 4 and it paid $300k or something like that. I can't remember for the life of me the name of that horse. This would have been in the 80's or 90's shipper from Woodbine, race was in the slop. I begged my dad to bet him ($2 better), but he wouldn't.

That's all well and good, and I remember several programs that used the number. That doesn't make it a good number. You could pull numbers out of a hat have some big scores over the years.

[Afleet]

Originally Posted by cj

That's all well and good, and I remember several programs that used the number. That doesn't make it a good number. You could pull numbers out of a hat have some big scores over the years.

With all the drugs, most speed numbers are questionable

[Afleet]

Originally Posted by cj

That's all well and good, and I remember several programs that used the number. That doesn't make it a good number. You could pull numbers out of a hat have some big scores over the years.

What do your numbers say about El Deal tomorrow at Saratoga, race 8?

[cj]

Originally Posted by Afleet

What do your numbers say about El Deal tomorrow at Saratoga, race 8?

He looks fastest on paper, but I'll bet against him. One was at Charles Town at 4.5f as you mentioned and the other on a track we have coded bright red---highly speed favoring. I also just don't trust horses like that shipping from smaller circuits to the big leagues. Rules are different and as we learned at Penn, you can get away with stuff some places that you can't at others.

I think, by far, A.P. Indian is the most likely winner.

[CincyHorseplayer]

I think DRF classic are the best PP's.

I think CJ makes the best variants in racing.

I think HDW deals best with the LP rating.

I like PP's separated from pace figure so I do separate prints and will always like to do it this way. I like to have figures in Excel so I can have my own rankings developed from those numbers on 1 page.

The DRF distributor in Cincinnati pulled the chord on every outlet but the track. I have acted accordingly by buying a real office printer and am printing my own great personal racing forms.

Wish we could shore up the rest. And I love the work that HDW and CJ does. I'm not bitching but just pointing things out from my perspective as my racing world has been turned upside down this year. I am taking my grandson to the track this summer. This is going to be an ongoing family tradition. Let's find that sweet spot for info in all this boys

[menifee]

Originally Posted by cj

He looks fastest on paper, but I'll bet against him. One was at Charles Town at 4.5f as you mentioned and the other on a track we have coded bright red---highly speed favoring. I also just don't trust horses like that shipping from smaller circuits to the big leagues. Rules are different and as we learned at Penn, you can get away with stuff some places that you can't at others.

I think, by far, A.P. Indian is the most likely winner.

Navarro vs. class, speed figures and logic. Will the drugs or handicapping win?
A few years back he shipped into Churchill on Derby day and won a bunch. Will be very interesting to see if his Monmouth magic can win at the Spa.

[barn32]

Originally Posted by cj

Anyone that was using that as a part of handicapping is probably broke by now.

Weren't all the Sartin guys using it back in the day?

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by cj

He looks fastest on paper, but I'll bet against him. One was at Charles Town at 4.5f as you mentioned and the other on a track we have coded bright red---highly speed favoring. I also just don't trust horses like that shipping from smaller circuits to the big leagues. Rules are different and as we learned at Penn, you can get away with stuff some places that you can't at others.

I have similar notes.

There's a horse coming off that MTH track running in the 2nd race today at Saratoga (Right Ben). We can see how he does for some insight.

[ubercapper]

Originally Posted by cj

He looks fastest on paper, but I'll bet against him. One was at Charles Town at 4.5f as you mentioned and the other on a track we have coded bright red---highly speed favoring. I also just don't trust horses like that shipping from smaller circuits to the big leagues. Rules are different and as we learned at Penn, you can get away with stuff some places that you can't at others.

I think, by far, A.P. Indian is the most likely winner.

I think he's the next coming of Private Zone (also trained by Navarro) for whatever that's worth.

[cj]

Originally Posted by ubercapper

I think he's the next coming of Private Zone (also trained by Navarro) for whatever that's worth.

Pretty sure Navarro got him after Private Zone was pretty well established already.

[cj]

Originally Posted by cj

Pretty sure Navarro got him after Private Zone was pretty well established already.

He was with Doug O'Neil for quite a while, including winning the Vosburgh and a second in the Cigar Mile. He then moved to Alfredo Velazquez. I'll admit I have no idea who that is. He also won the Cigar Mile with him.

After that, he moved to Navarro and won the Churchill Downs Handicap, the Belmont Sprint Championship Stakes, and the Forego. He capped the year with a second in the BC Sprint.

His final two starts were with Bryan Lynch and he was off the board in both.

My point is he was already a G1 winner before Navarro took over. He wasn't one of Jorge's alchemy projects.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by barn32

Weren't all the Sartin guys using it back in the day?

That was all we had other than a meridian variant.

[JohnGalt1]

DRF being sold has allowed many here to suggest changes to the pp's.

Getting rid of track variants is one suggestion made by some because it is worthless in their opinion.

Don't you want your betting competitors using bogus stats and worthless information?

I do.

I love to see my competitors at the track buy their form at the track and speed handicap before each race.

I want my competitors to use astrology, selections from newspapers and websites, and information I find useless in the pp's.

I want my competitors to not use class or form, (betting layoff horses with no workouts,) and to use the wrong pace line, and if they do use the track variant, to misuse it by not making the necessary adjustments to it.

I use the DRF variant to make my pace and speed figures--by mine I mean Hambleton figs from Satin's book.

They even work on synthetic surfaces. I played the 7/24 card at Presque Isle, a track I seldom play because of takeout, and made a profit of $500 winning 4 pick 4's.

I don't use variants for turf races, unless the turf course was off, or Gulfstream where the variant lets me know how far the rails are out.

I print my pp's from Bris using the pp generator, which allows me to transform the form the way I want. I eliminate the categories that are useless TO ME.

I used to make my lay off line 21 days, but because horse don't race as often, my lay off line is 28 days.

I don't print the Bris speed figure, and if I used DRF I would not use Beyer numbers.

I print the DSR speed and variant and purse value.

I don't print the company line, because to me it's worthless.

If you believe the variant is worthless, don't you want me and everybody else that uses it TO KEEP USING IT?

As far as I'm concerned the Beyer and Bris speed numbers, and the company lines could be eliminated from the DRF.

But, I don't want that. I want my competitors to use them. If they get value from the data I don't use, and I get value from the variant and other data I use, good for us.

I'm not going to write one or two examples of big hits I've had, and if a turf race was a big hit, the pace figures I made were done without track variants.

I will say that the third of my handicapping process that is pace figures has allowed me to win 10 pick sixes.

[Tom]

I print my pp's from Bris using the pp generator, which allows me to transform the form the way I want. I eliminate the categories that are useless TO ME.

The best part of BRIS is the PP Generator. I print out with no time, just the E2,LP numbers so I can use Pandy's new method and leave space to write in CJ's PF numbers. On the condensed format.