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12-11-2018, 07:28 PM
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#8686
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
If I recall correctly, Jesus said that we shouldn't hoard anything...and that, if we have two of anything...we should give the spare item to those who have none. If everyone followed this advice...how many "capitalists" would there be in our world?
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Does communism give people a choice? As individual believers we should be generous with what God has given us.
Under Judaism, was capitalism prohibited?
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Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
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12-11-2018, 07:31 PM
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#8687
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Quintessential guru
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 11,254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
Tell us...what did Jesus mean when he said that it is virtually impossible for a rich man to get to heaven? Or was he implying that there was an overabundance of miniature camels around at that time-period?
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Attachment to material or created things and the material comforts. Why waste your energy storing up treasures that you can be deprived of by theft and natural causes, like rust, rot, etc.
Put your efforts into your spiritual growth which cannot be taken away from you as they will be stored in heaven.
What do you think Jesus meant?
__________________
A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined; to which end a uniform and well-digested plan is requisite; and their safety and interest require that they should promote such manufactories as tend to render them independent of others for essential, particularly military, supplies.
George Washington
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12-11-2018, 07:31 PM
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#8688
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,569
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire
Greed or avarice is a sin. You don't have to be a capitalist to be greedy.
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If a Christian is hording money in the bank, and keeping spare possessions while knowing that others around him are doing without these things...is he, or is he not...knowingly disobeying Jesus's direct instructions? I never said anything about the Koreans, or anyone else...because the Koreans don't profess to be following the teachings of Jesus. I am talking strictly about the Christians here.
__________________
"Theory is knowledge that doesn't work. Practice is when everything works and you don't know why."
-- Hermann Hesse
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12-11-2018, 07:33 PM
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#8689
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,569
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire
Attachment to material or created things and the material comforts. Why waste your energy storing up treasures that you can be deprived of by theft and natural causes, like rust, rot, etc.
Put your efforts into your spiritual growth which cannot be taken away from you as they will be stored in heaven.
What do you think Jesus meant?
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I know what Jesus meant...but I wonder if anyone around him was really listening. Because it doesn't seem that his followers got the message.
__________________
"Theory is knowledge that doesn't work. Practice is when everything works and you don't know why."
-- Hermann Hesse
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12-11-2018, 07:36 PM
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#8690
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,569
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
Does communism give people a choice? As individual believers we should be generous with what God has given us.
Under Judaism, was capitalism prohibited?
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The communists don't profess to be following the teachings of Jesus...and neither do the Jews. It's the CHRISTIANS who declare that they are Jesus's followers. And I ask...do these Christians only follow Jesus's "convenient advice"? 
__________________
"Theory is knowledge that doesn't work. Practice is when everything works and you don't know why."
-- Hermann Hesse
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12-11-2018, 07:46 PM
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#8691
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Quintessential guru
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 11,254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
If a Christian is hording money in the bank, and keeping spare possessions while knowing that others around him are doing without these things...is he, or is he not...knowingly disobeying Jesus's direct instructions? I never said anything about the Koreans, or anyone else...because the Koreans don't profess to be following the teachings of Jesus. I am talking strictly about the Christians here.
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According to your interpretation if someone has two dollars, he has to give one away to someone else and if he doesn't he is violating Jesus's teachings? Or if a family has two cars, they must give one away?
The teaching is about greed and avarice. What about Jesus' friend Lazarus. Jesus did not call him greedy because Lazarus had accumulated wealth, land and and money. If one believes the Gospel, Jesus raised his rich friend from the dead and did not condemn him for having wealth when others did not.
Can you define a state of mind by an arbitrary quantity?
__________________
A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined; to which end a uniform and well-digested plan is requisite; and their safety and interest require that they should promote such manufactories as tend to render them independent of others for essential, particularly military, supplies.
George Washington
Last edited by Show Me the Wire; 12-11-2018 at 07:56 PM.
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12-11-2018, 07:49 PM
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#8692
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Quintessential guru
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 11,254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
The communists don't profess to be following the teachings of Jesus...and neither do the Jews. It's the CHRISTIANS who declare that they are Jesus's followers. And I ask...do these Christians only follow Jesus's "convenient advice"? |
No they don't.
__________________
A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined; to which end a uniform and well-digested plan is requisite; and their safety and interest require that they should promote such manufactories as tend to render them independent of others for essential, particularly military, supplies.
George Washington
Last edited by Show Me the Wire; 12-11-2018 at 07:56 PM.
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12-11-2018, 07:55 PM
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#8693
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,569
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire
According to your interpretation if someone has two dollars, he has to give one away to someone else and if he doesn't he is violating Jesus's teachings? Or if a family has two cars, they must give one away?
The teaching is about greed and avarice. What about Jesus' friend Lazarus. Jesus did not call him greedy because Lazarus had accumulated wealth, land and and money. If one believes the Gospel, Jesus raised his rich friend from the dead and did not condemn him for having wealth when others did not.
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How exactly does Jesus define "greed and avarice"...and why don't we have a more clear explanation of his about these things at out disposal? The most important man in the history of mankind...and all we know about him is relayed in a bunch of disjointed aphorisms which people are arguing about for over 2,000 years? Who is hiding this information about this man...and, WHY?
__________________
"Theory is knowledge that doesn't work. Practice is when everything works and you don't know why."
-- Hermann Hesse
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12-11-2018, 08:00 PM
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#8694
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Quintessential guru
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 11,254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
How exactly does Jesus define "greed and avarice"...and why don't we have a more clear explanation of his about these things at out disposal? The most important man in the history of mankind...and all we know about him is relayed in a bunch of disjointed aphorisms which people are arguing about for over 2,000 years? Who is hiding this information about this man...and, WHY?
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By the state of your mind, your intentions, your heart is where your treasures are. The teachings are not hidden they have been passed down through the Apostles. They have been written down by the early Church fathers, and the Saints throughout the ages.
__________________
A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined; to which end a uniform and well-digested plan is requisite; and their safety and interest require that they should promote such manufactories as tend to render them independent of others for essential, particularly military, supplies.
George Washington
Last edited by Show Me the Wire; 12-11-2018 at 08:03 PM.
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12-11-2018, 08:05 PM
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#8695
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,569
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire
No they don't.
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You told me in a phone conversation that you were once interested in the religions of the East. Do you see how detailed the Buddha doctrine is when it comes to explaining the Buddha's thought process? Have you seen how detailed the Socratic dialogues are, as they've been recorded by Plato? Do they leave any doubt as to what the Buddha or Socrates meant...and in what context they said that they said? And this happened 500 years BEFORE the era of Christ. The lectures of Socrates and Buddha exist in the form of complete dialogues...whereas the Jesus doctrine survives only in the form of disjointed fragments, the meaning of which no one can fully ascertain. WHY?
__________________
"Theory is knowledge that doesn't work. Practice is when everything works and you don't know why."
-- Hermann Hesse
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12-11-2018, 08:08 PM
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#8696
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Librocubicularist
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire
Try again.
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Read it again.
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Sapere aude
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12-11-2018, 08:11 PM
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#8697
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,569
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire
By the state of your mind, your intentions, your heart is where your treasures are. The teachings are not hidden they have been passed down through the Apostles. They have been written down by the early Church fathers, and the Saints throughout the ages.
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That's not true. The truth is that the early Christian Church was corrupted by the power that was bestowed upon it after the Roman/Christian "conversion"...and the "legitimate" early Church Fathers were widely ostracized by their own brethren...who were eager to live the "luxurious" life that the Romans promised. It's all in the writings of John Chrysostomos...if you are interested to find out for yourself.
__________________
"Theory is knowledge that doesn't work. Practice is when everything works and you don't know why."
-- Hermann Hesse
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12-11-2018, 08:24 PM
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#8698
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Smarty Pants
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Every Vote Counts
Posts: 3,160
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The great challenge of life: Knowing enough to think we are right...but not knowing enough to know we are wrong.
You're right.
So what are you talking about?
I studied World Religions too but not before I learned to read and write.
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12-11-2018, 08:26 PM
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#8699
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Librocubicularist
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
The "whole story", then, must include the crucifixion, right? No tomb, no death, no body.
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We've covered this before. The play is fiction. The hero is fiction. The supporting players are fiction. The milieu is fiction.
You can go to Israel today and see the tomb, several of them.
You can visit the spot in the Jordan River where John baptized Jesus. The spot was chosen by the Israeli bureau of tourism.
__________________
Sapere aude
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12-11-2018, 08:36 PM
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#8700
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Quintessential guru
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 11,254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
That's not true. The truth is that the early Christian Church was corrupted by the power that was bestowed upon it after the Roman/Christian "conversion"...and the "legitimate" early Church Fathers were widely ostracized by their own brethren...who were eager to live the "luxurious" life that the Romans promised. It's all in the writings of John Chrysostomos...if you are interested to find out for yourself.
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I've read the Chrysostomos, the "Golden Mouth" and other Church fathers. Doesn't Chrysostomos teach about the spiritual teachings of Jesus? In fact isn't the state of the heart a major teaching in the Eastern Orthodox Church.
Sure their were some who were corrupted by the promise of power and luxury and others sought power by joining the Church. Do you think St. Anthony the Great was corrupted?
Look at the current corruption by predatory homosexual clergy. Their actions do not nullify the doctrines or the fact spiritual teachings have been passed down, it only shows their individual lack of belief and faith.
__________________
A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined; to which end a uniform and well-digested plan is requisite; and their safety and interest require that they should promote such manufactories as tend to render them independent of others for essential, particularly military, supplies.
George Washington
Last edited by Show Me the Wire; 12-11-2018 at 08:38 PM.
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