Part 2: SPEED - Page 2 - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

turninforhome10 · 03-25-2012, 06:41 PM

Could it not be argued the the Beyer Speed Fig and Andy Beyer were the first speed figure to be a marketable name outside of everyday players? Unless introduced to another figure early in players career, I would think the Beyer fig is \has been part of most players evolution.

Tom · 03-25-2012, 07:10 PM

Beyers were initially sold through BRIS.
I used to buy them and clean up! Literally.

bob60566 · 03-25-2012, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom[b

]Beyers were initially sold through BRIS.[/b]
I used to buy them and clean up! Literally.

Excellent handicapping information, I will use this to build on my angles.

Mac

cj · 03-25-2012, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom

Beyers were initially sold through BRIS.
I used to buy them and clean up! Literally.

Shouldn't this be figuratively?

Tom · 03-25-2012, 07:37 PM

Yes, I guess it should!

Light · 03-25-2012, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaskalos

No...

I think the point was that you underestimated the role that Beyer himself played in these "major changes"...

Like what?

thaskalos · 03-25-2012, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Light

Like what?

Ok...here's the deal...

I have written plenty of stuff here, and I plan on writing a lot more.

Pick anything that I have written which you disagree with...and I am willing to debate it with you for as long as you want. Just don't try to aggravate me by pretending that you don't know what Andy Beyer has meant to the horseplayers...both as an author and as a journalist.

You didn't know that those were Beyer figures in the Racing Times...and that's fine. Everybody's knowledge has limits.

But to downplay Beyer's contribution to this game is just plain absurd.

He has been the KING of American horseplayers, in more ways than one, and we owe him a debt of gratitude.

He brought dignity and sophistication to the art/science of handicapping, at a time when these qualities were needed the most.

And there is no horse racing journalism without him.

Dave Schwartz · 03-25-2012, 10:00 PM

Thaskalos,

First, welcome to my world.

Second, you are right. There have been so many giants in this industry - contributors of good ideas. Andrew Beyer is definitely in the first tier of those.

All this said, onward, my friend.

Regards,
Dave Schwartz

lamboguy · 03-25-2012, 10:22 PM

when most people ask "what number did the horse get", its the BEYER number that they are asking about 90% of the time. the other 10% of the time it is a sheet number.

bob60566 · 03-25-2012, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lamboguy

when most people ask "what number did the horse get", its the BEYER number that they are asking about 90% of the time. the other 10% of the time it is a sheet number.

Is this not what this thread is about we all know about Andy in the eighties myself included, We have to move on in this decade in horse racing do i have to mention them and it is not numbers.
I have read every book that Andy wrote and use the information today.

Mac

Light · 03-25-2012, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Just don't try to aggravate me by pretending that you don't know what Andy Beyer has meant to the horseplayers.

That isn't the issue. We were talking about the Racing times as creating major changes in the DRF. You said I was underestimating Beyer's role in that. I said "like what?", because I knew you had no answer except to claim that I'm aggravating you. Please.

I have read everything Beyer wrote. I never saw anything he wrote where he was for a cause to change the nuts and bolts of the way the form is presented. If those were his figs in the Racing Times, it wasn't him who made the changes to the DRF. It was still the product of the Racing Times. They bought the rights and they forced the hand of the DRF, not Beyer.

I have nothing against Beyer, so stop trying to play the "Light hates Beyer" game so you can blackmail me as a "bad guy". Is this how insecure you are?

Greyfox · 03-25-2012, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz

Thaskalos,

First, welcome to my world.

Second, you are right. There have been so many giants in this industry - contributors of good ideas. Andrew Beyer is definitely in the first tier of those.

All this said, onward, my friend.

Regards,
Dave Schwartz

Agreed.

Thaskalos, you seem very sensitive to Light's comments, and I'm not sure why.
But relevant to this thread:

First of all, I don't see Andy as "The King of American Horseplayers,"
(your attribution). I luv his books and articles!!

Dave Schwartz called it right about the fact that Andy is in the first tier
re: Speed and his Washington Post contributions.
Handicapper Hall of Famer!

More Importantly, to this thread ,if I look at a Daily Racing Form today, AND more pertinent to debating whether or not people like Andy or not, or which publication put out the figures...Who cares...?

1.Of what value are the Speed figures?
a. On dirt
b. On turf

2. How should we use them?

Dave Schwartz · 03-25-2012, 11:24 PM

Light,

His point was that the thread was going off topic. This was supposed to be about Thaskalos' take on racing but he couldn't get to that part because of so much conversation about a paragraph or two that were not central to his message.

IMHO, not worthy of dispute when there are things to be learned.

Regards,
Dave Schwartz

cj · 03-25-2012, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Light

That isn't the issue. We were talking about the Racing times as creating major changes in the DRF. You said I was underestimating Beyer's role in that. I said "like what?", because I knew you had no answer except to claim that I'm aggravating you. Please.

I have read everything Beyer wrote. I never saw anything he wrote where he was for a cause to change the nuts and bolts of the way the form is presented. If those were his figs in the Racing Times, it wasn't him who made the changes to the DRF. It was still the product of the Racing Times. They bought the rights and they forced the hand of the DRF, not Beyer.

I have nothing against Beyer, so stop trying to play the "Light hates Beyer" game so you can blackmail me as a "bad guy". Is this how insecure you are?

Lets not turn this into another "Light hates name people" pissing contest.

Beyer decided to go public with his figures. He did that, not the Racing Times. He could have declined. He was the start of publishing quality speed figures and making them widely available to the public. Eventually they wound up in the DRF. Clearly, he had a big hand in it, even if it wasn't direct involvement. Lets move on.

cj · 03-25-2012, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greyfox

Agreed.

Thaskalos, you seem very sensitive to Light's comments, and I'm not sure why.
But relevant to this thread:

First of all, I don't see Andy as "The King of American Horseplayers,"
(your attribution). I luv his books and articles!!

Dave Schwartz called it right about the fact that Andy is in the first tier
re: Speed and his Washington Post contributions.
Handicapper Hall of Famer!

More Importantly, to this thread ,if I look at a Daily Racing Form today, AND more pertinent to debating whether or not people like Andy or not, or which publication put out the figures...Who cares...?

1.Of what value are the Speed figures?
a. On dirt
b. On turf

2. How should we use them?

1) The value of them now is knowing they are the #1 influence on betting in North America.

2) That will take many paragraphs that I will leave to thaskalos. Probably ten people could give ten different answers, and they might all be correct.