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Old 05-22-2022, 07:48 AM   #1
Andy Asaro
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Preakness: For once we get the truth from Trainer/Connections about a horse bleeding

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Old 05-22-2022, 08:13 AM   #2
PalaceOfFortLarned
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Didn't every other horse in the race run without Lasix?

Simplification had never ran a race with Lasix, nor had Epicenter that has been as hard on the Triple Crown trail.

Winner has never ran with Lasix.

Don't make me dislike such a hard knocking horse like Simplification.
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Old 05-22-2022, 10:45 AM   #3
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I get your post Andy and thank you for making it. Banning lasix is one of the worst decisions if you are concerned about the welfare of the horse or the betting public.
Each horse is different and could bleed under different circumstances. Not all horses will bleed, some will bleed at times. Very difficult to predict even for a trainer. Running on lasix helped most cases of bleeding to be controlled. When bettors wager today on horses without lasix how do we handle a poor effort? Was it simply not the horses day, was there trouble during the race or could they possibly have bleed?
Gamblers will have fun answering that question.
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Old 05-22-2022, 10:57 AM   #4
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I get your post Andy and thank you for making it. Banning lasix is one of the worst decisions if you are concerned about the welfare of the horse or the betting public.
Each horse is different and could bleed under different circumstances. Not all horses will bleed, some will bleed at times. Very difficult to predict even for a trainer. Running on lasix helped most cases of bleeding to be controlled. When bettors wager today on horses without lasix how do we handle a poor effort? Was it simply not the horses day, was there trouble during the race or could they possibly have bleed?
Gamblers will have fun answering that question.
It's one thing if they were scoping all the horses in these races and compiling stats to find out what is really happening with many of them but they're not. The only GOOD reason to not report it is that they know the results won't support what they've told us. And you also have the problem of connections not wanting their horses to be known as bleeders. Bottom line is that the industry is doing this half assed like a lot of the stuff they do.
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Old 05-22-2022, 11:07 AM   #5
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I don't have any information or knowledge about Simplification and this incident.

Some feelings of empathy and concern


some apprehension of trainer speak excuses for a horse I feel is a fraud.


Although I have a strong opinion to disagree, a lot of you guys picked or included this horse, and I respect you guys, and one outcome doesn't mean anything. I'm often wrong, even when I feel a horse is extremely dressed up, or down. It's a tough game with moving goal posts. PA mentioned 'psychology' as a factor in handicapping.

I hope Simplification is back to his baseline/peak in a couple weeks or ASAP. He's certainly worked his way into the 3yo crop conversation.


Don't feel this incident is a game changer for the industry or it's politics.

I do feel that the lasix and bleeding issues DO deserve some critical thinking
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Old 05-22-2022, 12:06 PM   #6
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It's one thing if they were scoping all the horses in these races and compiling stats to find out what is really happening with many of them but they're not. The only GOOD reason to not report it is that they know the results won't support what they've told us. And you also have the problem of connections not wanting their horses to be known as bleeders. Bottom line is that the industry is doing this half assed like a lot of the stuff they do.
Iím fine with some therapeutics in training, but Iím anti anything that will impact races, risk horses/riders, and anti race day medications. I think itís better for perceptions of the sport that way and thereís at least some chance it will help the breed long term if the more chronic bleeders are less successful and donít make it to stud as easily (not sure if any research has been done in that area). But we do need good data so we know whatís going on and can care for the horses properly. Gamblers also need it.
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Old 05-22-2022, 12:27 PM   #7
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I get your post Andy and thank you for making it. Banning lasix is one of the worst decisions if you are concerned about the welfare of the horse or the betting public.
Each horse is different and could bleed under different circumstances. Not all horses will bleed, some will bleed at times. Very difficult to predict even for a trainer. Running on lasix helped most cases of bleeding to be controlled. When bettors wager today on horses without lasix how do we handle a poor effort? Was it simply not the horses day, was there trouble during the race or could they possibly have bleed?
Gamblers will have fun answering that question.
all over the world, horses run without vitamin L.

Allan
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Old 05-22-2022, 12:55 PM   #8
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all over the world, horses run without vitamin L.

Allan
THIS /\ /\ /\
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Old 05-22-2022, 01:03 PM   #9
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all over the world, horses run without vitamin L.

Allan
Excellent article from just 9 years ago.

https://paulickreport.com/features/t...y-perspective/

Lasix wasn't in American horse racing till the mid-70s and not fully adopted till the mid-90s.

Ask yourself a simple question about the soundness, overall quality, and stamina of horses from the 70s vs today. What would your answer be?
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Old 05-22-2022, 03:54 PM   #10
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Excellent article from just 9 years ago.

https://paulickreport.com/features/t...y-perspective/

Lasix wasn't in American horse racing till the mid-70s and not fully adopted till the mid-90s.

Ask yourself a simple question about the soundness, overall quality, and stamina of horses from the 70s vs today. What would your answer be?
Very good point.
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Old 05-22-2022, 04:23 PM   #11
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The point is that if they aren't gonna use it then they should keep stats and report bleeding in the PP's
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Old 05-22-2022, 04:40 PM   #12
TonyK@HSH
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all over the world, horses run without vitamin L.

Allan
I simply don't believe that horses all over the world run without bleeding meds. One of the most learned voices on this site, Vic Stauffer may support my position. To me it's naive to believe that no anti bleeding medications are being used around the world.
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Old 05-22-2022, 05:08 PM   #13
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I simply don't believe that horses all over the world run without bleeding meds. One of the most learned voices on this site, Vic Stauffer may support my position. To me it's naive to believe that no anti bleeding medications are being used around the world.
Tony,

It seems to me that the time to say, "No Lasix" was 40-50 years ago, at the time when not almost every horse needed it.

Back then, if Lasix had been banned - not even completely - breeders would have been forced to breed away from bleeders.

Instead, the opposite was true.

Imagine (today) if, instead of banning Lasix, breeding with a stallion or mare that ran on Lasix was banned. There would be nobody left to breed!

Do I have this wrong?


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Old 05-22-2022, 06:56 PM   #14
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Imagine (today) if, instead of banning Lasix, breeding with a stallion or mare that ran on Lasix was banned. There would be nobody left to breed!

Do I have this wrong?
That's what is done in Germany. Lo and behold, in the past decade German-breds have won multiple runnings of the Arc de Triomphe, the King George, and the Melbourne Cup. Kentucky Derby and Dubai World Cup winner Animal Kingdom was out of a German-bred mare.

And Germany has a minor horse racing industry relatively speaking.
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Old 05-22-2022, 10:13 PM   #15
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That's what is done in Germany. Lo and behold, in the past decade German-breds have won multiple runnings of the Arc de Triomphe, the King George, and the Melbourne Cup. Kentucky Derby and Dubai World Cup winner Animal Kingdom was out of a German-bred mare.

And Germany has a minor horse racing industry relatively speaking.
^^This^^.
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