Religion II

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by dnlgfnk

What bullshit.

The headliners here, responsible for 130,000,000 deaths...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/mosl...mes-world.html

...dwarf the number of those killed throughout history in the name of religion.

True. But "religion" is supposed to SAVE...and not to kill. When supposedly "religious people" take up weapons and wage war against others, in the "name of God"...then, "religion" as a whole is diminished...IMO. "By their FRUITS ye shall know them"...a wise teacher once said.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Where do I find the biblical definition of righteousness?

Gen 17:1, Lev 11:44; Deut 18:13; Job 1:1; Ps 37:7; Mat 5:48; 2Cor 7:1; Rom 3:21-22; 2Cor 5:21, etc.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Red herring! None of that has anything to do with what I posted. Your strategy is to simply ignore every argument that even suggests that you could be wrong. Yahweh could very well be the villain of the piece and Lucifer the hero.

Checkmate!

If you want to play the game, learn first and foremost that you can't "checkmate" anyone on conjectural trash. What your profane imagination tells you Yahweh could be and what scripture reveals him to be are two very different things.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker

I'd argue it to be hate of the other more than anything. Hate. Prejudice. And we can never discount idiocy.

Why did these people hate each other? Borders are one thing, and trying to gain more than what one has, but the Middle East is, has been, and always will be a war torn area of the world. (The supposed Mecca of religion mind you.)

I don't want to discount Racism as a horrible disgust in our World history, but nothing has been more restrictive, more destructive, and more responsible for death in our planet's history than Religious persecution and prejudice.

This is not true. Atheistic, fascist, communistic regimes have murdered more people than religions have -- even though false world religions and an apostate Christian church have committed their fare share of atrocities. Have you ever heard of Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Idi Amin. Pol Pot, etc.?

Moreover, you should not judge what self-deceived or apostate religious do but rather what their religion teaches them to do. See Mat 5:9; Jn 16:33; Rom 5:1; 8,6; 12:18; 2Cor 13:11; 1Thes 5:13; Heb 12:14, etc., etc.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Parkview_Pirate

While I would agree the atheistic and "Teutonic insanity" religions of Red China, the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany win the numbers game, it's difficult to separate the violence committed by dictatorships in the name of religion, or just as a side effect from using religion (or lack of religion) as a controlling mechanism. But at the very least, we have the Crusades and more recently some of the Islamic acts of terror to look at in terms of what possibly lies ahead. And it's not looking good.

A recent survey revealed that income correlates to how free time is spent, and the poorer one is, the more likely that time is spent watching religious programming on TV.

http://www.visualcapitalist.com/amer...d-time-income/

Since the decline of industrial civilization is well underway, I can only see more of the world's population becoming poorer, and therefore religion, in the broadest sense of the term, becoming more popular as people attempt to deal with things changing for the worse.

In the Western world, this will be a challenge, as the decline means a lower standard of living, and worse, a lower set of expectations for children, as the "religion" of technological progress runs headlong into resource depletion and population overshoot. The decline of the popularity of religion in the past 150 years will reverse, but many will find the mechanical, dogmatic traditions doled out by traditional churches lacking. Eastern religions will become more popular, and some centered around ecology, Druidism, and even Paganism, though the numbers will remain small compared to what will become state-sponsored religions. These will be not just spiritual in nature, but more brain-washing in being a good drone in all aspects of life.

In the Eastern world, their religions focus more on the individual's spiritual journey, and less on the materialistic, mechanical overtones of the Western faiths - though, as irony would have it, one could argue the "herd effect" is much stronger for societies in the East. This will have them more prepared for the decline, though certainly wealthier citizens (and the elites) will have more difficulty adjusting, and that process usually isn't smooth.

Meanwhile, the elites will soon discover the power of using organized religion (again) as a tool for controlling the masses, and the table is being set perfectly for this as backlash to the liberal lack of morality we've observed recently. As we continue to become more and more polarized on various issues, expect that trend to spillover into religion - and the days "religious freedom" are numbered. Being a card-carrying atheist or agnostic may soon become a liability.

Good post! All that you say will contribute greatly to more unrest and destabilization among the nations. I suspect that what will "unite" the East and West will be global disasters (predicted in the bible) but all of which will be blamed on AGW and overpopulation. Even earthquakes are currently blamed on AGW! Famines, too, will be blamed on AGW, etc. Then the world will be ready and ripe to unite behind one religious-political leader.

[dnlgfnk]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

True. But "religion" is supposed to SAVE...and not to kill. When supposedly "religious people" take up weapons and wage war against others, in the "name of God"...then, "religion" as a whole is diminished...IMO. "By their FRUITS ye shall know them"...a wise teacher once said.

I haven't put my trust in princes- or myself- in quite a while. I don't consider a truth claim based upon those who could not live up to an ideal, but by those who did.

My intent was solely to factually challenge Lemon's last paragraph.

[Greyfox]

Originally Posted by dnlgfnk

I haven't put my trust in princes-

Your Sir Thomas More avatar more or less says that.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by dnlgfnk

What bullshit.

The headliners here, responsible for 130,000,000 deaths...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/mosl...mes-world.html

...dwarf the number of those killed throughout history in the name of religion.

Just be thankful the old time religious warriors did not have modern weapons and communications.

[dnlgfnk]

Originally Posted by hcap

Just be thankful the old time religious warriors did not have modern weapons and communications.

Maybe, but had those things emerged at that time, I would hope there would have been a corresponding development in the understanding of church-state relations.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by dnlgfnk

Maybe, but had those things emerged at that time, I would hope there would have been a corresponding development in the understanding of church-state relations.

The church was often the state. But church leaders could not convince their flock THEN using FAST modern propaganda techniques and devices.

Humans always found ways to maim and kill other humans. Technology however changes.

[Light]

Originally Posted by boxcar

But if God were to cast in hell even as few as one person, would you still not think he's a mean, sick and cruel God?

Yes I would. Because God knows all and he knows if that individual he created will do what he should not do. So to create a being that God knows will cause him to send him to Hell is Sadistic. This makes God himself become what his followers preach against and that is the lowest form of existence/consciousness (sending people to Hell).

On the other hand, God has a purpose to create that person he knew would do things worthy of Hell. And that is my point. Everyone has a purpose in life. And that purpose is to evolve into a reflection of God's nature which is the highest form of existence/consciousness. It is a seed within us all that eventually sprouts. But our paths to that level is not black and white. Not expected nor unexpected. It is mysterious. That's why you should not judge and always stay in your heart if you want to make progress on your path.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Light

Yes I would. Because God knows all and he knows if that individual he created will do what he should not do. So to create a being that God knows will cause him to send him to Hell is Sadistic. This makes God himself become what his followers preach against and that is the lowest form of existence/consciousness (sending people to Hell).

So...let me understand this: You're saying that the sinner causes himself to be condemned, yet it's God who is sadistic because God knew this being would sin? This doesn't make any sense, since the sinner freely chose his life!

On the other hand, God has a purpose to create that person he knew would do things worthy of Hell.[/b] And that is my point. Everyone has a purpose in life. And that purpose is to evolve into a reflection of God's nature which is the highest form of existence/consciousness. It is a seed within us all that eventually sprouts. But our paths to that level is not black and white. Not expected nor unexpected. It is mysterious. That's why you should not judge and always stay in your heart if you want to make progress on your path.

You're right. Everyone has a God-given purpose for everyone in this life. Read the following VERY CAREFULLY:

Rom 9:19-25
19 You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?" 20 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it? 21 Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use, and another for common use? 22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23 And He did so in order that He might make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles.
NASB

Don't you know that even the wrath of mankind will praise God (Ps 76:10)!?
And don't you know that even the condemned will confess with their mouths that Jesus Christ is Lord to the praise of God's glory (Phil 2:9-11)?

Why would you suppose that God thinks like mortal sinners? God's thoughts and ways are infinitely higher than ours, including his brand of justice (Isa 55:8-9)

The fact that you don't believe God, through Jesus Christ, will execute his righteous judgment upon sinners tells me that Christ isn't your savior, since you don't believe you have to be saved from anything, including God's righteous and holy indignation.

[dnlgfnk]

Originally Posted by hcap

The church was often the state. But church leaders could not convince their flock THEN using FAST modern propaganda techniques and devices.

Humans always found ways to maim and kill other humans. Technology however changes.

OK, hcap.

You want to state that "those old time religious warriors" were hindered by their time, and Bill Maher wants to cut off Ross Douthat by calling Soviet socialist genocide a "religion".

Put an asterisk next to "religious conflict casualties" and call them the champs.

In order to continue here, I've attempted to restrain myself to documentation and facts. When that's not enough, I'm not sure what's left unless I want to suffer through the battle of the fundamentalists on both sides, on display daily.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Gen 17:1, Lev 11:44; Deut 18:13; Job 1:1; Ps 37:7; Mat 5:48; 2Cor 7:1; Rom 3:21-22; 2Cor 5:21, etc.

None of those define righteousness. Only two even use the word and those assume the reader already knows what it means.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Atheistic, fascist, communistic regimes have murdered more people than religions have -- even though false world religions and an apostate Christian church have committed their fare share of atrocities. Have you ever heard of Hitler, ...

Christian, namely Roman Catholic. Claimed in Mein Kampf that he was doing God's work.

Originally Posted by boxcar

... Idi Amin, ...

Muslim.