HTR, HSH or RDSS?

[PandaMan]

I'm trying to decide between using HTR, HSH or RDSS.

My situation is that I have the next six weeks off from work because of a new "use it or lose it" policy regarding my accrued vacation time. I've never had six weeks off in my life (I'm 56) and it's very likely I never will again. This looks like the perfect opportunity to learn how to use a handicapping software program.

I'm a very frustrated ALL-Ways user and have posted about that here at PA. Instead of giving clear instruction on how to best use the AW software, their newsletters "explain" things in a very nebulous manner. Sort of an instructional slight of hand that makes it look as though things are being made clear, but they actually arent. I've found I'm not alone in that assessment. They don't really have a tutorial approach, which is what I prefer. It's just a sort of "read the newsletters" type approach, leaving me to search through dozens of newsletters to find what I need to know. It apparently works for some, but I'm not one of them.

It's important I make the right software decision since this "use it or lose it" vacation time policy is not going to happen again, and if I choose the wrong software I won't have time to ditch it and try something else. I have to be right the first time.

I'm putting posts similar to this on the RDSS, HTR and HSH forums as well. I want to get an idea from people who use the respective software as to whether my six-week learning timetable is feasible. If not I'd like to know up front so I don't waste anybody's time. I am not a pace handicapper, but a pencil and paper guy using mostly Tom and Jon Worth's TIPS-based methods. My experience has been that I get winners, but not a prices that make it profitable.

So please pardon my longwindedness, but I hope you can see how important it is to me to make the right choice the first time.

Thanks for any input anybody may have.


Panda

[46zilzal]

All of these have an extended learning curve time.

The RDSS works very well and has for several years if you practice a lot

[Tom]

If you have used Quirin style pace/speed figs, or Sartin/Brohamer velocity numbers, you are ready to use HTR out of the box. If not, it might take a day or two to find something you like. It has many windows into the races, not just speed/velociy/pace. The easy-to-use Robot will tell you what is winning at any givne track, or if you know how to bet an odds line, the K Screen is for you. You can evolve much deeper as you go.

[rrbauer]

Originally Posted by PandaMan

I'm trying to decide between using HTR, HSH or RDSS.

My situation is that I have the next six weeks off from work because of a new "use it or lose it" policy regarding my accrued vacation time. I've never had six weeks off in my life (I'm 56) and it's very likely I never will again. This looks like the perfect opportunity to learn how to use a handicapping software program.

I'm a very frustrated ALL-Ways user and have posted about that here at PA. Instead of giving clear instruction on how to best use the AW software, their newsletters "explain" things in a very nebulous manner. Sort of an instructional slight of hand that makes it look as though things are being made clear, but they actually arent. I've found I'm not alone in that assessment. They don't really have a tutorial approach, which is what I prefer. It's just a sort of "read the newsletters" type approach, leaving me to search through dozens of newsletters to find what I need to know. It apparently works for some, but I'm not one of them.

It's important I make the right software decision since this "use it or lose it" vacation time policy is not going to happen again, and if I choose the wrong software I won't have time to ditch it and try something else. I have to be right the first time.

I'm putting posts similar to this on the RDSS, HTR and HSH forums as well. I want to get an idea from people who use the respective software as to whether my six-week learning timetable is feasible. If not I'd like to know up front so I don't waste anybody's time. I am not a pace handicapper, but a pencil and paper guy using mostly Tom and Jon Worth's TIPS-based methods. My experience has been that I get winners, but not a prices that make it profitable.

So please pardon my longwindedness, but I hope you can see how important it is to me to make the right choice the first time.

Thanks for any input anybody may have.


Panda

I know a guy who took 6 weeks off and when he got back to work it turned out that nobody had missed him. Not long after that he found himself on a much longer vacation....

[rokitman]

Originally Posted by rrbauer

I know a guy who took 6 weeks off and when he got back to work it turned out that nobody had missed him. Not long after that he found himself on a much longer vacation....

You're not good for morale! Wel, his. Mine ya are!

[HUSKER55]

HSH WORKS GOOD AND HAS PLENTY OF FREE VIDEOS. Dave also answwers his own phone which is really nice.

[RichieP]

Panda
You say you use Tips etc. This shows you are into angles and looking at pp's a different way from some. It also shows imo that you think and are not "mechanical" in your way of thinking.

The answer will come from WITHIN (it must to be honest for you to have any chance of success imo) if you:
1) Spend a few hours and download the HTR free demo. check it out even apply your tips to the demo races shown. Not sure if there are video tutorials but if there are watch em.

2) Go to HSH forum and download and watch some of Dave's videos. They are well made and clear in what he is doing.

3) Go to RDSS forum, download free demo. even apply your tips to them and watch the tutorial videos Ted has made. They are well made and clear in what he is doing.

Spend 1 day on each doing your own research and info gathering. In all honesty we have no clue to how you think or what package makes you feel comfortable man. That's the old "different strokes for different folks" thing.

If you give yourself the best chance of "picking right" by giving each package a "look" while your mind and surrounding environment are QUIET the answer will come from within and the correct choice for YOU will show itself. They are all fine packages for folks who make it work for them

From where I sit 3 day investment of your time is the least you owe yourself Panda and the reward could be very great!

How can we as a "collective" pick something for someone else? Again respectfully it will never work.

best of luck

[PandaMan]

Originally Posted by Tom

If you have used Quirin style pace/speed figs, or Sartin/Brohamer velocity numbers, you are ready to use HTR out of the box. If not, it might take a day or two to find something you like. It has many windows into the races, not just speed/velociy/pace. The easy-to-use Robot will tell you what is winning at any givne track, or if you know how to bet an odds line, the K Screen is for you. You can evolve much deeper as you go.

Thanks very much for your thoughts, Tom. No, I've never been a pace handicapper, never used Quinn or Brohamer numbers. I'd like to thinkt that I have the potential to learn to, though. A day or to at finding something I like certainly doe sound promising. I reallly appreciate your post.

[PandaMan]

Originally Posted by RichieP

Panda
You say you use Tips etc. This shows you are into angles and looking at pp's a different way from some. It also shows imo that you think and are not "mechanical" in your way of thinking.

The answer will come from WITHIN (it must to be honest for you to have any chance of success imo) if you:
1) Spend a few hours and download the HTR free demo. check it out even apply your tips to the demo races shown. Not sure if there are video tutorials but if there are watch em.

2) Go to HSH forum and download and watch some of Dave's videos. They are well made and clear in what he is doing.

3) Go to RDSS forum, download free demo. even apply your tips to them and watch the tutorial videos Ted has made. They are well made and clear in what he is doing.

Spend 1 day on each doing your own research and info gathering. In all honesty we have no clue to how you think or what package makes you feel comfortable man. That's the old "different strokes for different folks" thing.

If you give yourself the best chance of "picking right" by giving each package a "look" while your mind and surrounding environment are QUIET the answer will come from within and the correct choice for YOU will show itself. They are all fine packages for folks who make it work for them

From where I sit 3 day investment of your time is the least you owe yourself Panda and the reward could be very great!

How can we as a "collective" pick something for someone else? Again respectfully it will never work.

best of luck

Hi RichieP

I'm in the process of getting each program. I have taken a brief look at some of the HSH and RDSS videos and tutorials and they certainly do a great job presenting the info.

Spending time with each program was always the plan. I was just trying to find out from users of RDSS or HTR or HSH if six weeks was enough for an individual of average intelligence to get a handle on using their software competently. I think I said in another post somewhere that I don't expect to become an expert or a guru in six weeks. I just want a working knowledge of the software and to be able to show a small profit. I'd be deliriously happy if I could accomplish that in six weeks. I'm not really looking for somebody to tell me which one is right for me, because you're correct, nobody can do that but me.

I didn't express clearly enough what I was asking for here, and that's my fault. The big question is: "Can a person of average intelligence learn to effectively use the software in a six-week time period?" That's the bottom line, and again apologies for not making that clear.

Thanks for all your great ideas, I really do appreciate it a great deal.

[ranchwest]

Originally Posted by PandaMan

Thanks very much for your thoughts, Tom. No, I've never been a pace handicapper, never used Quinn or Brohamer numbers. I'd like to thinkt that I have the potential to learn to, though. A day or to at finding something I like certainly doe sound promising. I reallly appreciate your post.

Tom said "Quirin", which you picked up as "Quinn". People often confuse the two.

[PandaMan]

Originally Posted by ranchwest

Tom said "Quirin", which you picked up as "Quinn". People often confuse the two.

Thanks, ranchwest. My bad. I'll correct that.

EDIT: Well, I guess I won't correct that. Looks like the time alloted for editing had elapsed.

[Sly7449]

Pandaman,

You are about to place yourself into a corner if your goal is to become comfortable with a New software in six weeks.

How much time are you going to devote daily with any Program you choose?

Are you going to treat it as a job and put in eight hours a day for 5 days a week?

Are you going to be playing whilst learning?

Can you devote 14 to 18 hrs a day 7 days a week?

Have you alraedy accomplished a similar schedule during the learning process with your current Program?

Will those same habits transfer to your New Program?

Be aware that most Programs out there just ain't for the Average Guy.

We all got to do a lot more than Average to get to the Head of the Class.

Maybe your time will be better spent on something you already know, and only you would know if you really put in Quality Time and these six weeks may be just what the Dr prescribed.

Stick with what you know and try to perfect it.

Then you would be able to help others.

FWIW

Sly

[ranchwest]

Originally Posted by Sly7449

Pandaman,

You are about to place yourself into a corner if your goal is to become comfortable with a New software in six weeks.

How much time are you going to devote daily with any Program you choose?

Are you going to treat it as a job and put in eight hours a day for 5 days a week?

Are you going to be playing whilst learning?

Can you devote 14 to 18 hrs a day 7 days a week?

Have you alraedy accomplished a similar schedule during the learning process with your current Program?

Will those same habits transfer to your New Program?

Be aware that most Programs out there just ain't for the Average Guy.

We all got to do a lot more than Average to get to the Head of the Class.

Maybe your time will be better spent on something you already know, and only you would know if you really put in Quality Time and these six weeks may be just what the Dr prescribed.

Stick with what you know and try to perfect it.

Then you would be able to help others.

FWIW

Sly

Why would he do that? For the program he is familiar with, nearly everyone who has replied to him has said they are clueless as to how to make it work.

[Sly7449]

Panda,


Would you critique the Concepts outlined in the Handicapping and Wagering Series and it's application with the Program?

Have you followed the pointers discussed in their Race Segmentation Series and what are your Critique on such concept?

First off, I do not use AW but I have read numerous News Letters in the past 10 years or so and once in a while I will go back and read them over again.


Well, honestly, I did use AW many moons back but what made me drop it was the $14.00 per card and the fact that I had to build up a Database.

I try to apply their ideas and many others by twisting and turning and trying to match or concoct them with the Program I currently use.

Very nice of fransden to allow folks to view their NL's and one nice thing about going back after a year or so is the fact that those Series they present in the NL's in Parts, they can be looked at all at once as opposed to reading Part one now and have to wait three months for Part 2 of 5 which takes over a year. But they are all there and available.

From what you mentioned, you got the database. Are you really willing to start with just one month back data with a new Program?

Will the AW data files you already purchased work with the New Program you are considering?

Sly

[jhilden]

My software route went like this: AllWays => HTR => HSH => Stopped playing the game altogether and the only horse playing time I spend is in developing my own methodology and creating a program that works it. For me, Allways was not that bad of a program and found the users manual to be sufficient for learning the program. I had some success if I did not use all of the automatic features and developed my own profiles. The biggest problem with Allways is the price of the data files. To have a good database for one track, I was spending close to, or just about over, a $100 a month on racefiles. As I became better in my handicapping and discovered that I had a niche for particular races, I soon found my playing options limited and I because of such limited betting, I was in the red when I added the price of the files against profit. The thing to do was raise my betting to overcome the file price, but my bankroll was insufficient to cover the price. Because of the file prices, I stopped using it and went to HTR.

I had a blast with HTR and spent a lot of hours learning it enough to get into the races. I didn’t get everything at first, but in a few months, I had enough to squeak out a profit. I found the price for the data to be fair as it included all tracks. This was especially great when I would be on the road and visit another track that I have not played. All I had to do was spend some time with HTR to see what was working and if any trends were present. It was great to play a track I never played before and have the insight HTR offered me. For some odd reason, even though I was making a profit, I thought there was more out there; hence, my move to HSH.

HSH was very overwhelming at first glance. I spent many hours watching videos, reading the BBS, and experimenting. I was able to go live and make bets after about 2 months using a simple method that worked to get me close to break even. I soon amassed a huge database that spanned about 6 years and consisted of hundreds of thousands of races. With this information on hand and years of work, I was able to uncover some secrets about database mining in respect to horseracing. Some of the secrets discovered are my starting points for my new method. I won’t divulge the secrets in public but will briefly give some insight.

With all the data I had, I would spend about 4 hours a day, 7 days a week, for months researching. My main focus in these sessions was to understand how the public bet for a multitude of parameters. It was amazing to see were a lot of “dumb” money was being bet. Starting with dumb money, I would go further and look for trends that appeared to be cyclical in nature and pounce on them when hot. The whole idea of using the database was to exploit deficiencies in the pools.

To be successful with HSH, I had to spend a lot of time researching and make a significant amount of bets. With the birth of my third child, the time was a premium and I could not devote the proper study and playing time that was required. Because of the diminished free time, I spend what free time I have developing my program as a hobby.

Excuse me for going off on a tangent; I would like to answer your initial question. I would recommend HTR and six weeks should be sufficient for learning the program and hitting the windows. To me, HSH has a steeper learning curve and I did not find it to work well enough until I built up a significantly large database. Sorry, have no experience with RDSS, so no opinion.

I will mention one major pitfall with using HTR or HSH, back fitting; it is really dangerous. With a huge database, I could develop hundreds of angles that appear to be to be the best thing to hit the handicapping community in years; all with proper documentation. But, just about all angles would most likely destroy a bankroll very quickly because I tailored the system to “fit” what happened yesterday