The Mountain Mad Bomber strikes!

[wiffleball whizz]

Bottom line is Mnr loves this guy....if they wanted him out it would take all of 32 seconds to find out who he is....

And I think the mountaineer bomber also strikes and the other WV track....seen lots of 1/9s early and then go off 4/5-7-5.......I got caught the night I was at CT for a job interview.....I bet 2 $20 doubles with the 1/9 I walk outside horse is even money as the race goes off.....I threw up in my mouth

[johnhannibalsmith]

Originally Posted by Longshot6977

... The odds are what they are at post time as long as he isn't breaking any policies/rules of the track.

When this came up one of the previous dozens of times, I remember checking West Virginia's rules and I'm fairly certain that they have a pretty detailed section on cancellation of wagers. It set pretty concise limits - if you haven't left the betting window, the bettor insists that the teller made a mistake, etc., etc. - and they even had crazy reconciliation rules for accounting for canceled tickets. I should go re-read it before posting this in case my memory is failing me or they've changed the rules, but the online rulebook for WVA is sort of tedious and I'm only half awake.

Obviously, that doesn't deal with account wagering. I don't recall reading anything on that subject in the context of account wagering. I also can't remember finding anything that dealt specifically with the notion of pool manipulation, but I find it amazing that this daily stunt is basically accepted by all parties as exactly that - pool manipulation - and nobody in regulation seems to really care. I never would have guessed that somebody could be as brazenly transparent and "in your face" as this "mad bomber" and it would simply be adopted as part of the betting experience at a racetrack. Strange to say the least.

[wiffleball whizz]

A little different version of the mad bomber but a decent article none the less

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2005/s1536771.htm

[Robert Goren]

Originally Posted by johnhannibalsmith

When this came up one of the previous dozens of times, I remember checking West Virginia's rules and I'm fairly certain that they have a pretty detailed section on cancellation of wagers. It set pretty concise limits - if you haven't left the betting window, the bettor insists that the teller made a mistake, etc., etc. - and they even had crazy reconciliation rules for accounting for canceled tickets. I should go re-read it before posting this in case my memory is failing me or they've changed the rules, but the online rulebook for WVA is sort of tedious and I'm only half awake.

Obviously, that doesn't deal with account wagering. I don't recall reading anything on that subject in the context of account wagering. I also can't remember finding anything that dealt specifically with the notion of pool manipulation, but I find it amazing that this daily stunt is basically accepted by all parties as exactly that - pool manipulation - and nobody in regulation seems to really care. I never would have guessed that somebody could be as brazenly transparent and "in your face" as this "mad bomber" and it would simply be adopted as part of the betting experience at a racetrack. Strange to say the least.

Where have you been? Pool manipulation has going on at least as long as I have going to the race in some form or another. I bet my first race in 1964. This is just last trick and is even close to the most blatant. I seen big money come in on a horse at 2MTP and come back out at 0 MTP. I seen pools double in size after the gates open with almost all the money going on one horse. I have seen phony lines in the PPs of a horse in the DRF. I seen horses that had no number lower than 6 anyplace in the PPs jumping in claiming price and go wire to wire. There very little I haven't seen. The one thing I have never seen is a track intervene for the small bettor.

[MightBeSosa]

There was a horse years ago trained by a crook and ridden by a crook at Hialeah.

No lie, 10 lines, every call double digits, running position and beaten lengths.

Got crushed in the betting late. off at 15-1, should have been 99-1

WIRE TO WIRE.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by thespaah

Your signature is one my all time favorite quotes in a coach/manager tirade.
Shame we don't see these anymore.
One of my other favs is Lee Elia former mgr of the Cubs going off on the media and the Cubs fans..."85 percent of the people here go to work. The other 15 percent come here!!"( to Wrigley Field)..

I loved that quote too...so I hope the moderators won't get too upset at me for putting it up here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHipzGL4dwM


And one more...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuxSs5SSL-E


Loved that guy...

[johnhannibalsmith]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

Where have you been? Pool manipulation has going on at least as long as I have going to the race in some form or another. I bet my first race in 1964. This is just last trick and is even close to the most blatant. I seen big money come in on a horse at 2MTP and come back out at 0 MTP. I seen pools double in size after the gates open with almost all the money going on one horse. I have seen phony lines in the PPs of a horse in the DRF. I seen horses that had no number lower than 6 anyplace in the PPs jumping in claiming price and go wire to wire. There very little I haven't seen. The one thing I have never seen is a track intervene for the small bettor.

Really.

You've seen manipulation more obvious and brazen than a track that practically every night of the week, several times an evening some nights, has a single wager drop accounting for 99% the win pool at first flash and then a massive percentage of the initial wager is pulled at post?

The numerous other unrelated anecdotes of single events notwithstanding, I find it hard to believe that you would consider a tote manipulator more brazen than the fine chap that pollutes the pools at Mountaineer constantly as though it is a normal wagering pattern.

We've all seen worse things than the "mad bomber". Or more newsworthy. But when you have a manipulator that actually has a moniker by which he/she is known and referred to by on-air track employees, the patterns and tactics are not only identifiable, but actually friggin' expected on a nightly basis... yeah, I'm sticking with my characterization as the most brazen, in-your-face, and obvious.

[thespaah]

Originally Posted by johnhannibalsmith

When this came up one of the previous dozens of times, I remember checking West Virginia's rules and I'm fairly certain that they have a pretty detailed section on cancellation of wagers. It set pretty concise limits - if you haven't left the betting window, the bettor insists that the teller made a mistake, etc., etc. - and they even had crazy reconciliation rules for accounting for canceled tickets. I should go re-read it before posting this in case my memory is failing me or they've changed the rules, but the online rulebook for WVA is sort of tedious and I'm only half awake.

Obviously, that doesn't deal with account wagering. I don't recall reading anything on that subject in the context of account wagering. I also can't remember finding anything that dealt specifically with the notion of pool manipulation, but I find it amazing that this daily stunt is basically accepted by all parties as exactly that - pool manipulation - and nobody in regulation seems to really care. I never would have guessed that somebody could be as brazenly transparent and "in your face" as this "mad bomber" and it would simply be adopted as part of the betting experience at a racetrack. Strange to say the least.

This describes the problem I have with cancelling of wagers.
ADW bettors have the ability to cancel wagers at will.
On track and OTB/OTW bettors are stuck with their wagers once they leave the window.
Not only is this not a level playing field, it opens any pari mutuel pool to manipulation. It's crap.
Some rules need to be instituted to put integrity back into the pools.
I would allow bettors to cancel wagers. But for only 60 seconds.
This would cut back on the practice where large bettors will place bets on 'false' favorites in order to skew the money away from the horse on which they actually want to bet, then cancelling the wager and simultaneously placing the wager of their original intent.
Now some may ask why I am so concerned about what others are doing. I'm not. I am advocating a level playing field. As long as betting on horses is through the Pari Mutuel system, the pool is OUR pool. All of us. I just want everyone who participates to have the same opportunities without regard to their location or method of payment.

[Charli125]

Originally Posted by thespaah

On track and OTB/OTW bettors are stuck with their wagers once they leave the window.

Are you sure about this part? I could swear that I've canceled wagers many times at the track. You just bring your ticket up and ask for it to be canceled. It's been a while, but I think you can even enter them in the machines and cancel them.

[SharpCat]

Anywone should be able to cancel a wager whenever they please. I like to bet early so I can concentrate on my horse body language in the paddock and see how he warms up at the track. I've cancelled several wagers late because I did not like the way my horse was warming up. What about the Life at Ten fiasco at the Breeders Cup. You got Johnny V. telling the whole world his horse was not warming up correctly. I wonder how much money was cancelled on her late. What if you had a large wager on her and were told sorry you can't cancel your wager?

[lamboguy]

Originally Posted by SharpCat

Anywone should be able to cancel a wager whenever they please. I like to bet early so I can concentrate on my horse body language in the paddock and see how he warms up at the track. I've cancelled several wagers late because I did not like the way my horse was warming up. What about the Life at Ten fiasco at the Breeders Cup. You got Johnny V. telling the whole world his horse was not warming up correctly. I wonder how much money was cancelled on her late. What if you had a large wager on her and were told sorry you can't cancel your wager?

no question it helps to look over the horses, and its not enough just to see them in the paddock. i have seen plenty of them look awful in the paddock and warm up great and win.

i will guarantee if you have a good eye, this game is treating you right.

good luck

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by SharpCat

Anywone should be able to cancel a wager whenever they please. I like to bet early so I can concentrate on my horse body language in the paddock and see how he warms up at the track. I've cancelled several wagers late because I did not like the way my horse was warming up. What about the Life at Ten fiasco at the Breeders Cup. You got Johnny V. telling the whole world his horse was not warming up correctly. I wonder how much money was cancelled on her late. What if you had a large wager on her and were told sorry you can't cancel your wager?

That's the Breeders Cup with 8 zillion in the win pool, no cancel is going to matter. But, at Tiny Mountaineer, with the win pool opening at 200 bucks, a 5k win bet is gargantuan, especially when the guy is pulling a large portion of it out of the pools at the last second.

[Robert Goren]

How often the horse with canceled bet win?

[lamboguy]

the guy making those big bets at the mountain is doing it in a casino in las vegas. in that state they have strict laws about cancelling tickets once you leave the window. i highly doubt that this guy has anything to do with cancelling his wagers. i don't think the hotel would jeopardize losing their gambling license just to allow a guy to cancel his bets and mislead the betting public.

[cj]

Originally Posted by lamboguy

the guy making those big bets at the mountain is doing it in a casino in las vegas. in that state they have strict laws about cancelling tickets once you leave the window. i highly doubt that this guy has anything to do with cancelling his wagers. i don't think the hotel would jeopardize losing their gambling license just to allow a guy to cancel his bets and mislead the betting public.

Care to tell us how the money is removed then?