x factor large heart 2014 what horses in this years derby have??

[silverfox]

TRYING TO FIND HORSES IN THIS YEAR DERBY WITH X FACTOR LARGE HEART/HELP.THANKS.SILVERFOX.

[silverfox]

Looking for x factor large heart in this years derby/Help.

[BlueChip@DRF]

WILDCAT RED
RING WEEKEND
CAIRO PRINCE
SOCIAL INCLUSION

[Stillriledup]

I'm not sure that info is public, but it would be interesting to know the size of all the participants hearts, its probably something that is known by someone.

[turninforhome10]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circula....22X_factor.22
The link is very useful. Knowing that the 4 major lines that X factor comes from, the horse must have one of the 4 on a direct tail female in order to inherit this.
The horses listed by Blue Chip do not have this feature so if he could share where this info came from?
California Chrome gets his through Princequillo from his 6th dam, Princess Matoaka by Princequillo.
Chito gets through 6th Dam Tsessebe by Buckpasser x Princequillo
General A Rod get through 7th dam Blue Hen Boudoir by Mahmoud
Commanding Curve through 7th dam Blue Hen Alablue by Blue Larkspur.
That what I have
This link is very good but more for genetics. http://www.pedigreepost.net/archives...DWDavidge.html
and this is my research http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/s...0&postcount=15

[raybo]

Originally Posted by turninforhome10

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circula....22X_factor.22
The link is very useful. Knowing that the 4 major lines that X factor comes from, the horse must have one of the 4 on a direct tail female in order to inherit this.
The horses listed by Blue Chip do not have this feature so if he could share where this info came from?
California Chrome gets his through Princequillo from his 6th dam, Princess Matoaka by Princequillo.
Chito gets through 6th Dam Tsessebe by Buckpasser x Princequillo
General A Rod get through 7th dam Blue Hen Boudoir by Mahmoud
Commanding Curve through 7th dam Blue Hen Alablue by Blue Larkspur.
That what I have
This link is very good but more for genetics. http://www.pedigreepost.net/archives...DWDavidge.html
and this is my research http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/s...0&postcount=15

From my probably inadequate research, I think you have it pretty much nailed.

However, having the gene doesn't mean it will automatically produce a larger than normal heart. I would think that any horse who has the larger heart would have already displayed very strong indications of it, assuming the horse can run in the first place of course. CC looks like the most likely to have a larger than normal heart, at least from what we have seen so far. The others listed are good horses but not overly so, IMO.

[LottaKash]

Originally Posted by silverfox

TRYING TO FIND HORSES IN THIS YEAR DERBY WITH X FACTOR LARGE HEART/HELP.THANKS.SILVERFOX.

Has this X-factor, have had anything to do with the majority of winners in the Derby ?

Just wondering....

[raybo]

From the article previously linked:

"The X-factor may indeed be linked to one specific mutated gene located on the X chromosome, however, as with most genetic traits, a larger than normal heart more than likely depends on a number of contributing genes that must be present and dominant in order for a truly large heart to develop."

And:

"It must be emphasized that a large heart does not by itself guarantee a champion, or for that matter a winner. With all other factors being equal, conformation, environment, health, training methods and what have you, the large hearted individual certainly has an advantage. In addition, the fact that breeders in general, and more specifically, top echelon breeders have continued to breed the best to the best and hope for the best, the large heart gene most likely has been spread throughout the thoroughbred population to the extent that the majority of leading broodmare sires carry the large heart gene on the X chromosome. Short of testing the entire foal crop each year, and confirming by autopsy, it is impossible to expound on how many foals are produced each year with the possibility of expressing the large heart gene. Because of this, the advantage enjoyed by large heart individuals has decreased markedly."

[raybo]

Originally Posted by LottaKash

Has this X-factor, have had anything to do with the majority of winners in the Derby ?

Just wondering....

Yes, over 50% have, or could have had the XFactor gene. That however doesn't mean that all those winners expressed the gene through a larger than normal heart. Also, even with the XFactor, it's almost certain that other genes must also be present for the large heart to happen.

But, IMO, many of the Derby winners have had larger than normal hearts, regardless of how they got it. Secretariat absolutely had a much larger heart than normal (actually measured), and we all know what he did. According to at least one losing owner to Big Red, who said: "That's impossible!!", after his far "superior" horse was obliterated by Big Red, by 31 lengths in the Belmont..

[LottaKash]

Originally Posted by raybo

Yes, over 50% have, or could have had the XFactor gene. ..

Thx Raybo, for the speedy clarification...Interesting...

[raybo]

Originally Posted by LottaKash

Thx Raybo, for the speedy clarification...Interesting...

You're welcome. My better half got way off into breeding/pedigree a couple of years ago, and I got sucked in for a minute. The article linked earlier was one that I read, more than once, because as the author stated (in my words): the XFactor cannot be absolutely confirmed as the reason for the success that these horses expressed, either through their performances or through their offsprings' performances, but to call it only coincidental would be ridiculous.

[nijinski]

Large heart is a big important factor and breeders do turn to the folks that
do the genetic research . The problem is the breeding does not always
create what is ideal . Each is a hybrid .
Big Red's full sister was not a success on the track so the real great ones who benefit from the trait certainly have to have other factors .

[raybo]

Just in case you want some more XFactor stuff, here's another interesting article: http://www.spiletta.com/UTHOF/hippology/xfactor.html

[raybo]

Originally Posted by nijinski

Large heart is a big important factor and breeders do turn to the folks that
do the genetic research . The problem is the breeding does not always
create what is ideal . Each is a hybrid .
Big Red's full sister was not a success on the track so the real great ones who benefit from the trait certainly have to have other factors .

I agree, while a large heart certainly makes things easier, more oxygen in the blood equals more stamina, other factors can negate that advantage. And, great horses don't have to have a large heart, rather they can become great due to other factors, conformation, etc..

But, most breeders, if they have the option, everything else being equal, would opt for the XFactor possibility I would imagine, on both sides of the parents/grandparents. Even if their horse doesn't perform outstandingly on the track, it can still pass on the ability for greatness to its offspring.

The problem now, is that everybody knows about the XFactor, and most everyone is breeding with it in mind, at least to some degree or other. So, we now have a large population of horses with similar breeding preferences that include the XFactor.

Secretariat did not do well with his sons, regarding their racing performances, but some have been very good dam sires, and Secretariat has produced daughters that have been outstanding, both on the race track and in the breeding barn. The daughters of XFactor sires, of course, are the only ones that can receive the XFactor from their sire. Male horses can only receive the XFactor gene from their dam, while female horses can receive it from their sire or their dam.

[BlueChip@DRF]

Originally Posted by raybo

"while a large heart certainly makes things easier, more oxygen in the blood equals more stamina, other factors can negate that advantage. And, great horses don't have to have a large heart, rather they can become great due to other factors, conformation, etc.."

"Even if their horse doesn't perform outstandingly on the track, it can still pass on the ability for greatness to its offspring."

"The problem now, is that everybody knows about the XFactor, and most everyone is breeding with it in mind, at least to some degree or other. So, we now have a large population of horses with similar breeding preferences that include the XFactor."

"Male horses can only receive the XFactor gene from their dam, while female horses can receive it from their sire or their dam."

Absolute key phrases - especially the last one.