Sad times for the great race place.

[horsefan2019]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

The historical experience contradicts you on this.

Your history ignores that we have internet and satellite wagering today. Something which didn't exist in the 1930's till 1960's. Consolidation of the circuit won't suddenly make it more prestigious that they will want to stay. They will just move to another jurisdiction that is friendlier to the sport of kings. It already happens all the time when you have jockeys and trainers leaving socal for another circuit out of state. Rarely do they ever move up north because they would face the same problems they are facing in socal. You also don't get we have interests that are openly hostile to the sport in the state that consolidation would not fix.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by horsefan2019

Your history ignores that we have internet and satellite wagering today. Stuff like that didn't happen in the 1930's till 1960's. Consolidation of the circuit won't suddenly make it more prestigious that they will want to stay. They will just move to another jurisdiction that is friendlier to the sport of kings. It already happens all the time when you have jockeys and trainers leaving socal for another circuit out of state. Rarely do they ever move up north because they would face the same problems they are facing in socal. You also don't get we have interests that are openly hostile to the sport in the state that consolidation would not fix.

I get all that Nonetheless, the reasons why they might ride circuit now are the same reasons they rode circuit then and the same reasons they go to Del Mar (which also uproots them) now.

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

That's not true. There were plenty of racetracks open in that era and different circuits.

Shipping from CA to those other tracks and circuits was not nearly as easy as it is now. It was done with trailers and not airplanes.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by AndyC

Shipping from CA to those other tracks and circuits was not nearly as easy as it is now. It was done with trailers and not airplanes.

And yet moving around was done all the time, because there wasn't year round racing.

[proximity]

the situation is really quite dire.

for too many races the number of commentators equals or exceeds the field size and the place is the bermuda triangle for proximity watch horses......even on the supposedly more forgiving turf.

a typical hong kong watch horse will run several times before a santa anita watch horse appears in the entries..... if it ever does.

one watch horse finally appeared in a ridiculous spot and figuring this was a workout to maybe help the race go, i exercised some discipline and figured the horse would quickly return in an appropriate spot. nope. still waiting.

[MooseDog]

Originally Posted by HorsemenHeist

Within the next couple years, Golden Gate will probably shut down anyway, so we will get 1 circuit in CA faster than you may think.

Not likely to happen any time soon for a variety of reason...

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

And yet moving around was done all the time, because there wasn't year round racing.

Not from west to east. Easy shipping will ensure that the overwhelming majority of good horses will go someplace not named Golden Gate.


Can you name me a circuit where tracks are 380 miles apart?

[theiman]

Read that GGF will not run a Saturday card on Saturday March 5th, Big Cap Day at SA. Instead will run on the next Monday, March 7th.

I wouldnt be shocked if they move more cards to Monday or a Tuesday. I believe Turf Paradise does, or did, better handle on their Mondays and Tuesday, than on the weekends.

[castaway01]

Originally Posted by theiman

Read that GGF will not run a Saturday card on Saturday March 5th, Big Cap Day at SA. Instead will run on the next Monday, March 7th.

I wouldnt be shocked if they move more cards to Monday or a Tuesday. I believe Turf Paradise does, or did, better handle on their Mondays and Tuesday, than on the weekends.

Parx used to do triple the handle on Monday and Tuesday what it did on Saturday, which is why they no longer run on Saturdays (admittedly I haven't seen Parx handle numbers since pre-COVID). If you can get the people who are used to playing your track to switch their attention to a weekday, it's not the worst idea to move where there is less competition.

As far as California, I do know that Illinois and New Jersey lost race dates and eventually most of their thoroughbred tracks and it didn't lead to a regrowth at the remaining tracks. I agree with the people saying the main problem is lack of interest on everyone's part---owners, trainers, gamblers---but unless you can revitalize that interest then having a Golden Gate/Del Mar circuit will just see more trainers and owners leave the game or the state. I don't have an answer to how you fix a problem it took 50 years to create though.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by AndyC

Not from west to east. Easy shipping will ensure that the overwhelming majority of good horses will go someplace not named Golden Gate.


Can you name me a circuit where tracks are 380 miles apart?

In the 1930's through 1960's? 380 mile moves happened a lot. Every year between New York (and other Eastern tracks) and Florida- far more than 380 miles.

Literally almost every stable at Oaklawn makes a 380 mile move from somewhere. And Oaklawn is successful.

Horsemen DON'T WANT to move north and south. That's understandable. They'd rather stay and watch Santa Anita run small fields that they can win. We know that.

But they spread a bunch of false propaganda about how they can't do it or they will have to go to other circuits. The reality is that if they had to move, they'd move. Indeed, Golden Gate trainers would also move down to SoCal tracks as well. We'd have bigger fields.

Honestly, year round SoCal racing was a huge mistake in the first place. Oak Tree and Hollywood Park fall should have never happened.

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by castaway01

Parx used to do triple the handle on Monday and Tuesday what it did on Saturday, which is why they no longer run on Saturdays (admittedly I haven't seen Parx handle numbers since pre-COVID). If you can get the people who are used to playing your track to switch their attention to a weekday, it's not the worst idea to move where there is less competition.

Parx Monday/Tuesday numbers are relatively strong, over $3 million a day pretty much every week lately.

[davew]

Andy, I admire your show and opinions but it seems Aqueduct is not doing much better right now. With the weather cancellations the last few weeks and holiday coming up Monday, it seems Aqueduct has a difficult time running 5 cards a week. It least we can see many of the New York horses running in Florida.

Years ago, it seemed some northern stables would winter in southern California. I would see horses from Emerald downs (Longacres before that) and Hastings racing there. Also shippers from Turf Paradise and even Arlington Park as well as stuff coming into USA from South America. Not so much anymore, although I no longer watch Santa Anita much.

This makes me wonder is there something about California that causes trainers and owners to rather stay home or go somewhere else? Are there any health entry requirements for horses that are more restrictive? Are there any labor laws involving workmens compensation or overtime that make it more difficult to be an employer there? Any other costs that are higher than most are used to?

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by davew

Andy, I admire your show and opinions but it seems Aqueduct is not doing much better right now. With the weather cancellations the last few weeks and holiday coming up Monday, it seems Aqueduct has a difficult time running 5 cards a week. It least we can see many of the New York horses running in Florida.

We haven't run five days a week at Aqueduct in years, Our handle numbers have been excellent. Save some Saturdays at Gulfstream, we are outhandling every racetrack in the country on a race by race basis.

It's the Winter. The weather hasn't been great. We've had five cancellations. Some Winters are worse than others. Obviously it's not our best racing, that's a given, but all things considered, the numbers are strong and the racing has been OK.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by castaway01

Parx used to do triple the handle on Monday and Tuesday what it did on Saturday, which is why they no longer run on Saturdays (admittedly I haven't seen Parx handle numbers since pre-COVID). If you can get the people who are used to playing your track to switch their attention to a weekday, it's not the worst idea to move where there is less competition.

As far as California, I do know that Illinois and New Jersey lost race dates and eventually most of their thoroughbred tracks and it didn't lead to a regrowth at the remaining tracks. I agree with the people saying the main problem is lack of interest on everyone's part---owners, trainers, gamblers---but unless you can revitalize that interest then having a Golden Gate/Del Mar circuit will just see more trainers and owners leave the game or the state. I don't have an answer to how you fix a problem it took 50 years to create though.

Scroll down to Jan 3rd article

https://letsgoracingparx.com/category/dick-jerardi/

[davew]

Originally Posted by the little guy

We haven't run five days a week at Aqueduct in years, Our handle numbers have been excellent. Save some Saturdays at Gulfstream, we are outhandling every racetrack in the country on a race by race basis.

It's the Winter. The weather hasn't been great. We've had five cancellations. Some Winters are worse than others. Obviously it's not our best racing, that's a given, but all things considered, the numbers are strong and the racing has been OK.

That is great, handle pays the bills and purses. I just look at the pools I am betting into and not the entire handle.

What has the handle at Santa Anita done through the years? If horse numbers drop and handle maintains is that a bad thing?