Congrats! Keep voting Dem!

[tucker6]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

The system is set up so anyone can become a millionaire or a billionaire...but the citizens are drowning in credit card debt...and the vast majority of the retirees in this country would starve if they didn't receive their social security checks.

and most of them by choice. I couldn't begin to count all the people who have turned down overtime because they hd enough to get to next payday. It's a life choice that eventually bites them at retirement but you get what you earn.

[Tom]

It's the evil, anti-American policies of the scumbag democrats coupled with the ineptutude and lack of balls by the repubs.

The dems have dumbed down the voters too much.
Like that stupid bith on the View blaming climate c change for the earthquake and the eclipse.

Democrat party is worse the nazi party for the US.

We actually have morons walking around out there that support Joe Adolph Biden.

[Inner Dirt]

Originally Posted by tucker6

and most of them by choice. I couldn't begin to count all the people who have turned down overtime because they hd enough to get to next payday. It's a life choice that eventually bites them at retirement but you get what you earn.

The people that got me were the ones always wanting raises but never working overtime because "it wasn't worth it." These were people at the time that 30+ years ago that working the 5 hour Saturday would have got the equivalent of a $3 an hour raise on their check. This was at a company where everyone punching a clock was paid by labor grade. Your labor grade was based on your skill level within your job classification. So no matter what department you worked in a labor grade 8 made the exact same money unless they were a shift lead. Every labor grade got yearly COLA raises.



So to give someone a raise until they maxed out, max being some departments maxed out at below the top plant labor grade, you had to put someone in for a labor grade increase, and for that there were strict guidelines. I actually had people tell me if I put them in for a higher pay grade they would learn the job. You cannot make this crap up. At that place you could learn as much as your brain could hold.



All the places I worked in manufacturing had overtime readily available
as they all either had no 3rd shift or just a skeleton crew on 3rd. I never worked more than 80 hr weeks and those were few as they only paid double time in desperation. I worked too many 69 hour weeks to count. I am pretty shocked looking at some years of Social Security wages back in the day remembering how little I made per hour. All the work hours did not affect my life outside of work as I got by on less than half the sleep of a normal person.


When I started my business I would consider a 80 hour week part time.
All work is straight time, no paid time off, of any sort. The customers are now the A-holes instead of the boss. At least I do not have to deal with the general public.

[Inner Dirt]

Originally Posted by Tom

It's the evil, anti-American policies of the scumbag democrats coupled with the ineptutude and lack of balls by the repubs.

The dems have dumbed down the voters too much.
Like that stupid bith on the View blaming climate c change for the earthquake and the eclipse.

Democrat party is worse the nazi party for the US.

We actually have morons walking around out there that support Joe Adolph Biden.

There is a lot of media that following it actually makes you dumber. I cannot believe The View is still on the air, it is interesting to watch early episodes and see what liberal garbage it has become, which is true of a lot of media sources. It could be a lot of extremely stupid people watch The View so they can feel smart compared to the cast of idiots on that show.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by tucker6

and most of them by choice. I couldn't begin to count all the people who have turned down overtime because they hd enough to get to next payday. It's a life choice that eventually bites them at retirement but you get what you earn.

We are in different business industries, but I think I have dealt with more employees over the years than you have. And I have seen far more of them asking me for more working hours than asking me for less.

IMO, the trickle-down economics policy popularized by Ronald Reagan didn't work out as intended. The theory is that offering tax benefits to the wealthy and the corporations would benefit the economy as a whole, because the Increased income would filter down to the lower sectors. Alas, this thinking hasn't worked out like that in practice. As we have seen, the owners of large corporations like Amazon and Wal-Mart have become super-rich...while their employees can often be found on welfare. And it's like that in the smaller corporations too. I have seen grocery store owners who drive Ferraris and live in mansions...who turn down their managers' pay raise requests because the "profit isn't there". Sadly...not every business owner is like JustRalph.

[tucker6]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

We are in different business industries, but I think I have dealt with more employees over the years than you have. And I have seen far more of them asking me for more working hours than asking me for less.

IMO, the trickle-down economics policy popularized by Ronald Reagan didn't work out as intended. The theory is that offering tax benefits to the wealthy and the corporations would benefit the economy as a whole, because the Increased income would filter down to the lower sectors. Alas, this thinking hasn't worked out like that in practice. As we have seen, the owners of large corporations like Amazon and Wal-Mart have become super-rich...while their employees can often be found on welfare. And it's like that in the smaller corporations too. I have seen grocery store owners who drive Ferraris and live in mansions...who turn down their managers' pay raise requests because the "profit isn't there". Sadly...not every business owner is like JustRalph.

I was thinking more about my days in industrial construction. "I already have enough beer money until next payday" was a popular refrain. I kid you not. Dallas area 25 years ago. The construction manager warned me before the offer that construction guys and their families are almost nomadic and they prefer living paycheck to paycheck. Damned if he wasn't right. Happened that way every time and in different states.

I've seen it in my business too but much more what you see.

[Inner Dirt]

Originally Posted by tucker6

I was thinking more about my days in industrial construction. "I already have enough beer money until next payday" was a popular refrain. I kid you not. Dallas area 25 years ago. The construction manager warned me before the offer that construction guys and their families are almost nomadic and they prefer living paycheck to paycheck. Damned if he wasn't right. Happened that way every time and in different states.

I've seen it in my business too but much more what you see.

Maybe you were a racist and hired too many white construction workers and paid dearly for your racism. ,signed Mayor Pete.


Not sure if you heard that one. I suppose things have changed, my first summer job, I was 12 working with my across the street friend and his dad the carpenter. 12 hour days 6am to 6pm. Denny's breakfast, McDonald's lunch and all the soda pop we could drink plus $1 an hour, circa 1973.


We hung doors, shot baseboards, and did general clean up. I now live on a property that was bought for the 10 acre wooded lot and the shop I run my business out of. I am slowly fixing up the POS house, it is a pile of shit, not much right about it. Some of the interior doors are so poorly hung the dead bolt does not line up with the striker plate. The two doors on the exterior walls are so poorly hung small snakes get in. I am like, "Damn, if Walter and I did crappy work like that at 12 we would have been fired and a belt taken to our asses."

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by tucker6

and most of them by choice. I couldn't begin to count all the people who have turned down overtime because they hd enough to get to next payday. It's a life choice that eventually bites them at retirement but you get what you earn.

I like talking to you, so I am going to tell you something else. I don't blame people who don't run after working overtime hours. Income isn't the most important way to measure the worth of a person's life, IMO.

I've worked long and hard in my life, I've had some success in business...and I've made some money. But as I reflect upon my life now, I don't see myself as a "successful" person. I don't feel like a "failure"...but I honestly find myself somewhere in between. I feel that I've paid too much for the life that I live now...and I have lingering regrets. My wife died young, and all she ever saw was me working long hours for a "future" which wasn't in the cards for her. If I lived a more "balanced" life, she would have had a happier time with me...and this continues to bother me after all these years.

Life is difficult, and we are asked to play several different roles all at the same time. We want to be good husbands, good fathers, good providers...and also good to ourselves. It's hard balancing all those tasks...so I can't rightfully criticize someone who refuses to work overtime so he can spend more time with his family. Ideally...it should be possible to earn enough money while working 40 hours a week to support a family, so we can live balanced lives...especially in the "best country in the world". But our political system here doesn't have the interests of the middle class at heart, and that's a shame.

[tucker6]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

I like talking to you, so I am going to tell you something else. I don't blame people who don't run after working overtime hours. Income isn't the most important way to measure the worth of a person's life, IMO.

I've worked long and hard in my life, I've had some success in business...and I've made some money. But as I reflect upon my life now, I don't see myself as a "successful" person. I don't feel like a "failure"...but I honestly find myself somewhere in between. I feel that I've paid too much for the life that I live now...and I have lingering regrets. My wife died young, and all she ever saw was me working long hours for a "future" which wasn't in the cards for her. If I lived a more "balanced" life, she would have had a happier time with me...and this continues to bother me after all these years.

Life is difficult, and we are asked to play several different roles all at the same time. We want to be good husbands, good fathers, good providers...and also good to ourselves. It's hard balancing all those tasks...so I can't rightfully criticize someone who refuses to work overtime so he can spend more time with his family. Ideally...it should be possible to earn enough money while working 40 hours a week to support a family, so we can live balanced lives...especially in the "best country in the world". But our political system here doesn't have the interests of the middle class at heart, and that's a shame.

As you know, we share the loss of a wife to cancer too young and unexpectedly. I can say that I regret some things but I also appreciate what all my hard work allowed me in life. Our hard work allowed my wife to get 18 months of a great future before it was cut short. I am always thankful for that. I'm 60 now and selling my current company. My brother asked me if I was retiring and I said NO. I'm too young to vegetate all day. Maybe I'll start another company. The point is that your drive and determination was put inside of you Gus and you were born to be what you are. You can't have regrets about how and what you are, unless it's about being Greek, and if so I can completely understand. (for levity)

To the point of this thread, I don't criticize those who want to live in the moment. It wasn't my mindset, but if they want to live that way, that is their choice. On the other hand, I don't like people saying society is leaving certain people behind and wanting me to pay for the unintended consequences of that decision. That was their choice and no one else should have to foot the bill for someone else's life choices. I don't expect others to pay for mine.

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

I like talking to you, so I am going to tell you something else. I don't blame people who don't run after working overtime hours. Income isn't the most important way to measure the worth of a person's life, IMO.

I've worked long and hard in my life, I've had some success in business...and I've made some money. But as I reflect upon my life now, I don't see myself as a "successful" person. I don't feel like a "failure"...but I honestly find myself somewhere in between. I feel that I've paid too much for the life that I live now...and I have lingering regrets. My wife died young, and all she ever saw was me working long hours for a "future" which wasn't in the cards for her. If I lived a more "balanced" life, she would have had a happier time with me...and this continues to bother me after all these years.

Life is difficult, and we are asked to play several different roles all at the same time. We want to be good husbands, good fathers, good providers...and also good to ourselves. It's hard balancing all those tasks...so I can't rightfully criticize someone who refuses to work overtime so he can spend more time with his family. Ideally...it should be possible to earn enough money while working 40 hours a week to support a family, so we can live balanced lives...especially in the "best country in the world". But our political system here doesn't have the interests of the middle class at heart, and that's a shame.

Please elaborate.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by AndyC

Please elaborate.

One example:

Amazon reported $35 billion in U.S. pretax income for 2021, but is taxed at a federal income-tax rate of 6%, according to a report from the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy, an advocacy group. So, even though the company paid a whopping $2.1 billion in taxes that year, it was only a fraction of what Amazon should have paid...and no middle class taxpayer could have gotten such a sweet deal.

Another example:

From 2006-2018, Jeff Bezos saw a wealth increase of $127 billion according to Forbes...but he only reported a total income of $6.5 billion during that time period. So, even though he paid $1.4 billion in federal taxes on his reported earnings...that accounts for only a 1.1% true tax rate.

I don't know about you...but I couldn't care less if these mega corporations are reinvesting their profits into their operations. Such corporate tax breaks allow these giant companies to pay lower tax rates than most working families...and that's why I say that our political system "doesn't have the interests of the middle class at heart".

[horses4courses]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

One example:

Amazon reported $35 billion in U.S. pretax income for 2021, but is taxed at a federal income-tax rate of 6%, according to a report from the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy, an advocacy group. So, even though the company paid a whopping $2.1 billion in taxes that year, it was only a fraction of what Amazon should have paid...and no middle class taxpayer could have gotten such a sweet deal.

Another example:

From 2006-2018, Jeff Bezos saw a wealth increase of $127 billion according to Forbes...but he only reported a total income of $6.5 billion during that time period. So, even though he paid $1.4 billion in federal taxes on his reported earnings...that accounts for only a 1.1% true tax rate.

I don't know about you...but I couldn't care less if these mega corporations are reinvesting their profits into their operations. Such corporate tax breaks allow these giant companies to pay lower tax rates than most working families...and that's why I say that our political system "doesn't have the interests of the middle class at heart".

Sound reasoning with examples that strengthen your argument.
Still.....it won't get much approval from regulars here.

Hitting your head against a wall repeatedly comes to mind.
As much as you try to reason with them, there's no fixing some people.

[fast4522]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

I like talking to you, so I am going to tell you something else. I don't blame people who don't run after working overtime hours. Income isn't the most important way to measure the worth of a person's life, IMO.

I've worked long and hard in my life, I've had some success in business...and I've made some money. But as I reflect upon my life now, I don't see myself as a "successful" person. I don't feel like a "failure"...but I honestly find myself somewhere in between. I feel that I've paid too much for the life that I live now...and I have lingering regrets. My wife died young, and all she ever saw was me working long hours for a "future" which wasn't in the cards for her. If I lived a more "balanced" life, she would have had a happier time with me...and this continues to bother me after all these years.

Life is difficult, and we are asked to play several different roles all at the same time. We want to be good husbands, good fathers, good providers...and also good to ourselves. It's hard balancing all those tasks...so I can't rightfully criticize someone who refuses to work overtime so he can spend more time with his family. Ideally...it should be possible to earn enough money while working 40 hours a week to support a family, so we can live balanced lives...especially in the "best country in the world". But our political system here doesn't have the interests of the middle class at heart, and that's a shame.

Bullshit, in order to have it all you have to be worth something to those who employ you. In order to get profit sharing and matched contributions to retirement savings and a decent pension you have to be valuable to the company or when downturns come your the first one out the door. If your working for someone that is not providing those things it is because you are looking for a easy ride. It is possible for husband and wife to both have good jobs even where the wife makes more but how can you support a family with 40 hours a week and be valued by a company? People have kids working at fast food places are insane, smokers, tattoo's, nothing to offer and still have kids. There is no balance, it went out the door long long ago.

The problem runs deep in many areas. I highly doubt you can place fault at any ONE area and have a solution at this point.
I have said many times, and will continue.... (I agree with thask), BOTH our political parties can care less about you!

One will blame the other for attempting to tax the lower income levels and give the rich tax breaks. Yet, when that same party has had power, please tell me how the lower class benefited???

The other, in an attempt to say the help the lower class, helps the UPPER class even further which has no real option but to pass some of that along. It then appears that the lower class is benefiting (but reality is different), as the gap between rich and poor widens even further. Now some of you will say but my 401k, etc etc was better under this party. That may be true! During the many years of repug control, you should have been retired by now if it was so great...right???

Don't get me wrong, I will and mostly have voted for the right side of the aisle as they do align more with my values and beliefs. But I am not foolish enough to believe that they are the saving grace!

Look at your family systems. It is proven that as a whole, kids with TWO parents are better off in life.

Next, look at the school system..... Kids now a days can't even get past a normal interview. They come to an interview in flip flops, tee shirt and sweat pants. True story...I had a young employee come to me as he had to fill out some company paperwork. Near the bottom of the form he had to SIGN his name. He asked me "what that meant". Now, before you start stereotyping, this is a 20 y/o white male, well spoken, and as best I know from a decent family. He went on to explain how they were not taught in school how to sign their names. So, he printed his name out. One letter at a time...and connected each letter with a line across the bottom of each!!
Math....forget it !!! Most of them can't tell you what a fifth of something is without naming a drink!!

Religion....Now let me start by saying I am not the holy roller, etc etc. But you do have to take it for face value that kids who grow up in to religion usually are more aware and have some value system in place. Whether you agree with the value system is another story, which I am not addressing.

Our political system as a whole, is flawed. Look at how many states are in the union. Next, look at how many states actually matter in an election! No one gives a shit about Mississippi, Louisiana, California, New York, etc etc. A democrat voting in a deep red state might as well stay home and not even vote for the general. And the opposite is true in deep blue states for "red" voters.

The Tax code is a damn joke. Thask mentioned how the uber rich, and companies, pay less as a percentage than the average family. How is that even possible?? It's called deductions, etc etc. Most single families don't even qualify for deductions to take advantage of the benefits. Or, they don't know the laws well enough to use it to their advantage.

The insurance system, another big scam! I pay over a thousand a month for just myself and wife. And that's in the HOPE I don't ever have to use it!! Once I need it, then deductibles and other cost can put a serious strain on any savings that were there. Home Owners and flood, another Joke. Every year, the cost goes up without ANY claims. My last claim was during hurricane Katrina, in which I had to pay the first 7500. Then I had to fight tooth and nail to get the policy paid as they tried to claim "act of god" etc etc. Homeowners was trying to claim flood damage therefore it should fall on flood and flood was claiming wind damage PRIOR to the flooding so they could get out of it. When a massive amount had to be paid out by companies, they started pulling out of a lot of areas (due to new FEMA flood maps) which only caused prices even higher.

Auto, no better. Pay every month...UNTIL you have a ticket, or a claim. Then it goes up. You can have twenty years of safe driving with no claims. Get a hail event and ....well there's a possibility you will be paying more.

In Louisiana we have to have what's called "brake tags". Twenty dollars a year to have someone "inspect" your car to ensure it's safe to drive on the road. When you pull up, if they know you, slip them twenty and tag is written and placed in your window. If they don't know you, pull up, follow every instruction. (hit the horn, left turn signal, right turn signal, brake lights, headlights, high beam, low beam). Then get your tag! Without a tag, that's a ticket if pulled over!

I could go on and on.....But what does all this really ADD up to....
Cost of food up...double digits
Cost of Insurance up.....double digits.....
Cost to go to (Credible) college.....Lifetime of debt!
Cost of gas......Up
Cost of Phone...UP
Cost of cable.....UP


Pay raise. 3%. That's with REPUG or Dem...... So tell me again how these parties are helping us!!!

Now I know ive kind of rambled and been a little all over the place. BUT THATS THE POINT. The problems are ALL OVER. It's not one thing! You name a topic, and we can discuss how it's broken and hindering the middle class. The goal is for all of the NOT uber rich to be at the mercy of their "representatives"!

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by fast4522

Bullshit, in order to have it all you have to be worth something to those who employ you. In order to get profit sharing and matched contributions to retirement savings and a decent pension you have to be valuable to the company or when downturns come your the first one out the door. If your working for someone that is not providing those things it is because you are looking for a easy ride. It is possible for husband and wife to both have good jobs even where the wife makes more but how can you support a family with 40 hours a week and be valued by a company? People have kids working at fast food places us insane, smokers, tattoo's, nothing to offer and still have kids. There is no balance, it went out the door long long ago.

You can be "worth something to those who employ you", and still have no profit sharing or matched contributions. And it isn't because you are "looking for an easy ride". Of course, I don't expect you to understand or agree with me...that's why I directed my post to Tucker6.

Let me ask you a question:

When you told me yesterday that "there must be a reason why I have the peasants at heart"...were you implying that I was a "peasant" myself?