something many of you have never heard

[dilanesp]

Dave Johnson's original on track call of the 1973 Belmont.

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-rac...ariats-belmont

[dilanesp]

By the way, we can refute one urban legend having seen this. Secretariat did not gallop out in 13 3/5 to run 2:37 3/5 for 1 5/8 miles (which would have been faster than Swaps' American record for that distance) as many people have claimed. Secretariat is clearly dead tired after the race and takes much longer than 13 seconds to get to the 1 3/8 mile pole at Belmont.

[ScottJ]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

Dave Johnson's original on track call of the 1973 Belmont.

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-rac...ariats-belmont

Brilliant stuff. Honestly, I did not know that Dave Johnson called the race on-track as I thought Chic Anderson was lead race caller in 1973. Always great to learn another nugget about one of the great triple crown races. Thanks for sharing.

[Spalding No!]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

By the way, we can refute one urban legend having seen this. Secretariat did not gallop out in 13 3/5 to run 2:37 3/5 for 1 5/8 miles (which would have been faster than Swaps' American record for that distance) as many people have claimed. Secretariat is clearly dead tired after the race and takes much longer than 13 seconds to get to the 1 3/8 mile pole at Belmont.

Not going to consider the speed of the playback or the run-up this time 'round? What happened to all the talk of 'frames per second' and 'parallax view'?

The film doesn't show the start very well & certainly not at an angle where you can estimate the run-up. That's beside the point though, because the film doesn't even show Secretariat crossing the wire at the finish!

Looked 2-3 seconds slow to me based on the fractions you can clock & compare to the official fractions (3/4s in ~1:12+ on this footage w/ the official fraction recorded as 1:09 4/5). Crudely that puts him at the 1 3/8 pole somewhere near 2:38-2:39 without any consideration to run-up. Track record at the time for 1 5/8 was 2:40 4/5 set by the great Man o' War.

Of course, just the fact that he even shaded a track or American record on the gallop out while eased down to a lope shows you how fast he ran the 12 furlongs...you know, the actual distance he was competing at...

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Spalding No!

Not going to consider the speed of the playback or the run-up this time 'round? What happened to all the talk of 'frames per second' and 'parallax view'?

The film doesn't show the start very well & certainly not at an angle where you can estimate the run-up. That's beside the point though, because the film doesn't even show Secretariat crossing the wire at the finish!

Looked 2-3 seconds slow to me based on the fractions you can clock & compare to the official fractions (3/4s in ~1:12+ on this footage w/ the official fraction recorded as 1:09 4/5). Crudely that puts him at the 1 3/8 pole somewhere near 2:38-2:39 without any consideration to run-up. Track record at the time for 1 5/8 was 2:40 4/5 set by the great Man o' War.

Of course, just the fact that he even shaded a track or American record on the gallop out while eased down to a lope shows you how fast he ran the 12 furlongs...you know, the actual distance he was competing at...

You can visibly see how tired he is Spalding. He OBVIOUSLY did not get the next furlong in 13 seconds. As Bob Dylan said, you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

(Indeed, I think he actually got it in about 16 seconds- 2:40, at best. Nowhere near Swaps. His fans wanted him to break every American record, which is where the urban legend came from.)

[Spalding No!]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

You can visibly see how tired he is Spalding.

All I can see is that he was eased up to a lope. Doesn't really matter if he's tired or not, he's not being asked for any effort.

He OBVIOUSLY did not get the next furlong in 13 seconds.

It's not obvious. The footage only goes back to Secretariat well after he cleared the 1 7/16th pole (i.e., well past a 1/16th after the finish). And we know from the CBS footage of the race that he didn't shut down right past the wire; Turcotte was urging up to and through the finish.

(Indeed, I think he actually got it in about 16 seconds- 2:40, at best.

Based on what? This footage doesn't show the horse crossing the wire & I already pointed out the inconsistencies with the internal fractions.

Nowhere near Swaps. His fans wanted him to break every American record, which is where the urban legend came from.)

I've honestly never heard a word about Secretariat and some presumed Swaps record broken during the Belmont Stakes gallop out. Where is this being discussed? Let me guess...Twitter?

As Bob Dylan said, you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

You still need both a Point A and a Point B to know how fast a horse went.

What do you care about which way the wind was blowing anyways? You're clearly not worried about the start of the race, the run-up, the finish, nor any other objective fact relative to the race...you're just worried about forcing some farcical narrative on us about the existence of some fanatic underground Secretariat cult.

At least we'll be spared from at least 2 other hit-and-run posts from you this summer since they no longer run the Arlington Invitational or Marlboro Cup.

I'm half expecting you to point out some black smudge on the next Secretariat footage you dig up proclaiming that its the monolith from 2001, thus proving that Secretariat indeed was sent here by Ancient Aliens to wreak havoc on horse racing history...

[Jeff P]

Hey, don't sell Giorgio Tsoukalos short.

That guy knows his stuff!

There was this one episode where archeologists were combing through the ruins of an ancient racetrack. It had a surprising degree of sophistication for its day.

They were trying to translate cuneiform symbols carved into rectangular stones surrounding the winner's circle.

The lead translator said he wasn't one hundred percent sure but he thought whoever had carved the symbols was complaining about how the addition of a runup had made timing accurately from drumbeats all but impossible.


-jp

.

[Spalding No!]

Originally Posted by Jeff P

There was this one episode where archeologists were combing through the ruins of an ancient racetrack. It had a surprising degree of sophistication for its day.

It could be argued that horse racing in antiquity was actually more sophisticated than modern day, in terms of both the good and the bad extremes of the sport.

Some horses back then were so smart they were elected to the Roman Senate (Incitatus). It also wasn't uncommon for horses to compete in dozens of nation-states alternating between Europe & Asia & Africa (Bucephalus).

PEDs were a bit more rampant, though. The horses of Achilles were said to have been "blessed" by Poseidon & Pegasus literally had wings. Bellerophon was the top trainer of his day but not without controversy as he was said to have "charmed" bridles supplied by Athena.

However, one area that could have used some more regulation was the breed registry:

[dilanesp]

I've honestly never heard a word about Secretariat and some presumed Swaps record broken during the Belmont Stakes gallop out. Where is this being discussed? Let me guess...Twitter?

It shows up in the discussion here, for example, and used to be on Secretariat's Wikipedia page until someone took it down. I have read it in several places though. It is something Secretariat's fans say.

More generally, Spalding, my attitude about Secretariat is that the 1973 Belmont is one of the greatest races in history. It might actually be the greatest performance in American racing history, and if it isn't, it's right up there. (Perhaps Count Fleet's Belmont? Man O' War's Lawrence Realization?) But there's a cottage industry of giving Secretariat credit for things he didn't do, when the stuff he did do is amazing.

[Spalding No!]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

It shows up in the discussion here, for example, and used to be on Secretariat's Wikipedia page until someone took it down. I have read it in several places though. It is something Secretariat's fans say.

Fair enough, but basically the link you provided is simply a copy-and-paste job from Wikipedia. So you provided one source (which has already been corrected).

At least it wasn't Twitter.

Meanwhile, when one does a Google search in attempt to get even a whiff of this conspiracy (using the keywords "Secretariat", "Belmont", and "Swaps"), the first--and only--link (way down the page) that mentions it is...you guessed it...

THIS THREAD!

This Secret Secretariat Sect hides this stuff better than the Knights Templar...either that or you're their Grand Wizard.

One more, than back to reality:

[PaceAdvantage]

meme generators are the best thing the internet has ever come up with

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Spalding No!

Fair enough, but basically the link you provided is simply a copy-and-paste job from Wikipedia. So you provided one source (which has already been corrected).

At least it wasn't Twitter.

Meanwhile, when one does a Google search in attempt to get even a whiff of this conspiracy (using the keywords "Secretariat", "Belmont", and "Swaps"), the first--and only--link (way down the page) that mentions it is...you guessed it...

THIS THREAD!

Actually, here it is in Horse Racing Nation from TWO DAYS AGO, Spalding.

https://www.horseracingnation.com/ne...ng_Belmont_123

galloping out 1 5/8 miles in 2:37.6, which would have been a record for the distance

But you go on making memes.

[Spalding No!]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

Actually, here it is in Horse Racing Nation from TWO DAYS AGO, Spalding.

Nice one; its even a press release.

Well, I guess you established that this claim about breaking Swaps' record is out there.

You still have a long way to go prove that it's not correct.

But you go on making memes.

[outofthebox]

[QUOTE=dilanesp;2882305]By the way, we can refute one urban legend having seen this. Secretariat did not gallop out in 13 3/5 to run 2:37 3/5 for 1 5/8 miles (which would have been faster than Swaps' American record for that distance) as many people have claimed. Secretariat is clearly dead tired after the race and takes much longer than 13 seconds to get to the 1 3/8 mile pole at Belmont.[/QUOTE
You really believe the slow gallop out means Secreteriat was dead tired? I'm surprised you didn't mention the second and third place finishers out galloped him to the turn. Like it really means anything then or now. Gallop outs are generally controlled by the jockeys, not the horses..

[dilanesp]

You really believe the slow gallop out means Secreteriat was dead tired? I'm surprised you didn't mention the second and third place finishers out galloped him to the turn. Like it really means anything then or now. Gallop outs are generally controlled by the jockeys, not the horses..

He was tired enough that he didn't get off a 13 second furlong right after the end of the race. I don't mind characterizing it as less than "dead tired" (if you want to say "visibly very tired" that's fine), but it's obvious, despite Spalding's protestations, that the urban legend is false.