What to do about incompetent and or corrupt Stewards?????

[Andy Asaro]

We see it all over the country and I might be wrong but it seems like the nonsensical calls are increasing. Lately the NYRA Stewards are getting the most heat. I ran a twitter poll and these are the numbers. Should have had a 4th choice saying They do a good job.

Anyway, I've been highly critical of California Stewards for a long time. The Modern Games fiasco at the Breeders Cup a few years ago was easily the worst debacle ever. Total incompetence. And the worst thing about some of these decisions are that there are ZERO CONSEQUENCES

And I do believe at least one Steward is gambling on the races they officiate over and maybe more.

Twitter

Is it incompetence, corruption/cheating, or both?

Incompetence - 39.5%
Corruption/Cheating - 24.3%
Both - 36.3%

375 votes
·
6 days left

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Last edited by Andy Asaro; 10-02-2023 at 09:32 AM.

[Andy Asaro]

Twitter

[Andy Asaro]

Twitter

[thaskalos]

Was the third post of this thread left blank intentionally? I ask because I’ve sometimes seen this done with books…

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Was the third post of this thread left blank intentionally? I ask because I’ve sometimes seen this done with books…

Looks like it was a tweet that has since been deleted.

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

We see it all over the country and I might be wrong but it seems like the nonsensical calls are increasing. Lately the NYRA Stewards are getting the most heat. I ran a twitter poll and these are the numbers. Should have had a 4th choice saying They do a good job.

Anyway, I've been highly critical of California Stewards for a long time. The Modern Games fiasco at the Breeders Cup a few years ago was easily the worst debacle ever. Total incompetence. And the worst thing about some of these decisions are that there are ZERO CONSEQUENCES

And I do believe at least one Steward is gambling on the races they officiate over and maybe more.


https://twitter.com/racetrackandy/st...54348446597558


Is it incompetence, corruption/cheating, or both?

Incompetence - 39.5%
Corruption/Cheating - 24.3%
Both - 36.3%

375 votes
·
6 days left

Andy saying something like that is irresponsible IMO.

You're accusing them of the fracturing the very fabric of what they are sworn to do.

You all know I've been a steward in several jurisdictions.

I've never even remotely seen anything to believe what you're accusing is true.

I've wagered millions of dollars in my life.

However when I'm officiating horse racing. ANY kind of wagering moves completely off my radar. And I mean no other tracks, no poker, no sports. Nuthin!

[Inner Dirt]

The calls are often subjective, the stewards are human and can make mistakes. The bad calls and good calls will even out, most people are too biased to see this. How many football fans think the referees missed a call that harmed their team, while never acknowledging a missed call helped their team. Don't make me go add to the pet peeve thread I started. I forgot, do the stewards have to be unanimous for a DQ or simple majority?

[thaskalos]

IMO...the stewards are not criticized enough. They have slow motion replay and various different video angles to replay the race from, and no one is rushing them to make up their minds...and they still get the call wrong? Give me a break...this ain't rocket science. The horseplayer has enough chaos to contend with in this game...he doesn't need the stewards to turn him into a loser even when the heavenly stars finally align the right way for him.

[alhattab]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

Andy saying something like that is irresponsible IMO.

You're accusing them of the fracturing the very fabric of what they are sworn to do.

You all know I've been a steward in several jurisdictions.

I've never even remotely seen anything to believe what you're accusing is true.

I've wagered millions of dollars in my life.

However when I'm officiating horse racing. ANY kind of wagering moves completely off my radar. And I mean no other tracks, no poker, no sports. Nuthin!

Vic it isn’t just corruption or wagering interests, it is the perception of conflict of interest. In New York, you have a steward who was the longtime assistant to the 2023 Saratoga co-leading trainer. I saw them together at the 2022 NYB sales inspecting horses before the sale. When there is an incident warranting (to many) an obvious DQ involving said trainer’s charges and no action is taken, some people may understandably be suspicious. Not saying anything untoward is happening, but these are perfectly reasonable concerns that other professions have very strict protective rules/regulations that are in place to alleviate these concerns.

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by Inner Dirt

The calls are often subjective, the stewards are human and can make mistakes. The bad calls and good calls will even out, most people are too biased to see this. How many football fans think the referees missed a call that harmed their team, while never acknowledging a missed call helped their team. Don't make me go add to the pet peeve thread I started. I forgot, do the stewards have to be unanimous for a DQ or simple majority?

A majority decision can carry the day.

Truth be told it happen quite often.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Inner Dirt

The calls are often subjective, the stewards are human and can make mistakes. The bad calls and good calls will even out, most people are too biased to see this. How many football fans think the referees missed a call that harmed their team, while never acknowledging a missed call helped their team. Don't make me go add to the pet peeve thread I started. I forgot, do the stewards have to be unanimous for a DQ or simple majority?

I disagree. When I was 21 years old, a ridiculous stewards call at Evangeline on Belmont Stakes day, which resulted in a double-disqualification, unjustly deprived me of a major score. I am now 62 years old, and this bad call still hasn't evened out for me...and I doubt that it ever will. It's one thing when my "team" is harmed by a bad referee call...and an entirely different thing when a steward actually takes money out of my own pocket. The professional athlete gets paid even when his team suffers a bad call...but I take a hit in my pocket when the stewards screw up.

[Robert Fischer]

mostly see normal issues with concentration of power, bias, incentives, incompetence...

i don't see the stewards as any more (or any less) 'corrupt' than your typical human beings.

[Inner Dirt]

It is just people looking through biased eyes that always scream about officiating being part of something immoral or seeing mistakes that they imagined. My favorite ones are the guys who think NFL referees are fixing games. I have told them to put themselves in the referees shoes. The referee
is not sitting on a couch watching the game eating pizza and drinking beer.
He does not have the advantage of seeing multiple angles of a play, there are 7 refs on the field to watch 22 men, whom many are very large and very fast.
They are often dealing with obstructed views. I am on the officials side.

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

IMO...the stewards are not criticized enough. They have slow motion replay and various different video angles to replay the race from, and no one is rushing them to make up their minds...and they still get the call wrong? Give me a break...this ain't rocket science. The horseplayer has enough chaos to contend with in this game...he doesn't need the stewards to turn him into a loser even when the heavenly stars finally align the right way for him.

With due respect Thask. Just because YOU think a call is wrong doesn't make it so.

Yes the process is highly subjective. It's not perfect but it's better than any other available options.

Stewards have rigorous training to be accredited and in most of the major jurisdictions many years of experience.

Some are GREAT analyzers of film. Some not so much.

Do they sometimes get it wrong? Of course they're human.

But for the vast majority of decisions they get it right.

It's a thankless job I can promise you that. You know no matter what you decide someone is going to be pissed.

If you can't deal with the criticism. You can't be a steward.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Inner Dirt

It is just people looking through biased eyes that always scream about officiating being part of something immoral or seeing mistakes that they imagined. My favorite ones are the guys who think NFL referees are fixing games. I have told them to put themselves in the referees shoes. The referee
is not sitting on a couch watching the game eating pizza and drinking beer.
He does not have the advantage of seeing multiple angles of a play, there are 7 refs on the field to watch 22 men, whom many are very large and very fast.
They are often dealing with obstructed views. I am on the officials side.

Are you aware that the referees now have multi-angled, slow-motioned replays?