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06-12-2017, 09:35 PM
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#16
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Slope Handicapping ™
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Mount Holly, New Jersey
Posts: 1,120
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This guy couldn't win a Super Bowl, not even with one of the best teams of all time, and he's gonna get on a soap box and tell everyone what is wrong with horse racing. Unreal, 2017 has turned into a real shitshow.
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Slope Handicapping ™ - winning since 2005
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06-12-2017, 09:39 PM
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rise Over Run
This guy couldn't win a Super Bowl, not even with one of the best teams of all time, and he's gonna get on a soap box and tell everyone what is wrong with horse racing. Unreal, 2017 has turned into a real shitshow.
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What makes this comment really funny is this. Randy Moss lives in Minneapolis and lived there when the other one played on the Vikings. Also both currently are NFL commentators.
Needless to say even though two human males couldn't look less alike both have stories about being mistaken for the other.
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06-12-2017, 09:49 PM
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,046
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HalvOnHorseracing
(I don't care if you're a Chromie - Bayern was a better horse by November).
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California Chrome, off a layoff, was beaten 7 lengths in the PA Derby by Bayern who walked on the lead--this coming off a pathetic 1/2 mile pop-and-stop in the Travers.
Bayern then lasted a nose and neck in front of Chrome in the BC.
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Now tell me why that would seriously damage the importance of the TC, which by the way is (1) only really important to horseplayers anyway, (2) is only important to everyone else if there is the potential of a TC winner, and (3) a change everyone will forget about in three years.
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Probably would impact the general public interest in the TC and by extension possibly the network televising of the 3 races.
By the way, if the crux of your argument is that the TC is too hard physically on horses (which is probably true), then I don't see why you would keep the Kentucky Derby on the first Saturday in May. Certainly much of what you call the "TC grind" is really the grind getting to the Kentucky Derby. Most of the injuries to key horses crop up before May and not during the Triple Crown.
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06-12-2017, 09:51 PM
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#19
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Resurrectionist
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Cheyenne, Wy
Posts: 3,615
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rise Over Run
This guy couldn't win a Super Bowl, not even with one of the best teams of all time, and he's gonna get on a soap box and tell everyone what is wrong with horse racing. Unreal, 2017 has turned into a real shitshow.
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Well played sir, well played!
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06-12-2017, 10:03 PM
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spalding No!
California Chrome, off a layoff, was beaten 7 lengths in the PA Derby by Bayern who walked on the lead--this coming off a pathetic 1/2 mile pop-and-stop in the Travers.
Bayern then lasted a nose and neck in front of Chrome in the BC.
Probably would impact the general public interest in the TC and by extension possibly the network televising of the 3 races.
By the way, if the crux of your argument is that the TC is too hard physically on horses (which is probably true), then I don't see why you would keep the Kentucky Derby on the first Saturday in May. Certainly much of what you call the "TC grind" is really the grind getting to the Kentucky Derby. Most of the injuries to key horses crop up before May and not during the Triple Crown.
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For me any and all changes are on the table. For example if you ran the Derby later you could run a longer spring Keeneland meet. You can't start it earlier because of the weather but you can run it longer.
I'm for a very simple concept to increase exposure to the sport. Make changes to the major races that increase exposure. Run the meets such as Keeneland, Del Mar and Toga longer that attract casual fans.
Essentially stop making fans adapt to your b.s. Traditions and give them what they show they want.
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06-12-2017, 10:40 PM
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#21
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 9,047
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperPickle
For me any and all changes are on the table. For example if you ran the Derby later you could run a longer spring Keeneland meet. You can't start it earlier because of the weather but you can run it longer.
I'm for a very simple concept to increase exposure to the sport. Make changes to the major races that increase exposure. Run the meets such as Keeneland, Del Mar and Toga longer that attract casual fans.
Essentially stop making fans adapt to your b.s. Traditions and give them what they show they want.
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How about stop worrying about fans who aren't betting anyway?
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06-12-2017, 10:50 PM
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#22
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Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperPickle
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But here's the real reason to change it. You're doing it wrong. The Monday after the Triple Crown everyone involved in horse racing asks the same question "how do we maintain casual fans outside the five weeks of the Triple Crown?"
The answer is make the Triple Crown LONGER. ...
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I never thought of this as one of the reasons people want to have longer spacing between TC races. Very good thinking!
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06-12-2017, 10:54 PM
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahoss9698
How about stop worrying about fans who aren't betting anyway?
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The problem with that logic than it's game over. If you market it as straight gambling the vig (i.e. Takeout) is too large to attract big money.
As much as casual sports fans are a pain to more seasoned fans and gamblers they're a necessity for the long term survival.
You're talking about having to get takeout down to 12-15% across the board. I'd love for this to happen but it's climbing Everest compared to moving three stakes races.
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06-12-2017, 10:57 PM
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#24
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 9,047
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperPickle
The problem with that logic than it's game over. If you market it as straight gambling the vig (i.e. Takeout) is too large to attract big money.
As much as casual sports fans are a pain to more seasoned fans and gamblers they're a necessity for the long term survival.
You're talking about having to get takeout down to 12-15% across the board. I'd love for this to happen but it's climbing Everest compared to moving three stakes races.
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So I take it we saw a big jump in handle after Zenyatta and American Pharaoh?
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06-12-2017, 10:57 PM
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#25
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Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spalding No!
California Chrome, off a layoff, was beaten 7 lengths in the PA Derby by Bayern who walked on the lead--this coming off a pathetic 1/2 mile pop-and-stop in the Travers.
Bayern then lasted a nose and neck in front of Chrome in the BC. ...
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Didn't Bayern set a track record in this race?
I remember running his numbers in that race and if I recall correctly, Bayern ran each 4f faster than the prior 4f.
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06-12-2017, 11:01 PM
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#26
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahoss9698
So I take it we saw a big jump in handle after Zenyatta and American Pharaoh?
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I'm not getting your point. Are you saying they didn't help the sport? Or are you asking for direct impact on handle?
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06-12-2017, 11:02 PM
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#27
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 4,553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocker
The Preakness is now run on the 3rd Saturday of May. The most they could move it would be a week, because Pimlico's meet ends after that last weekend in May. After that, you start running into scheduling problems at Belmont, because their spring meet ends very early in July.
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Exactly...with such an established date pattern, few other dates can be pigeon-hole for anything different, any talk of change is moot.
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06-12-2017, 11:06 PM
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Denver
Posts: 4,163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spalding No!
By the way, if the crux of your argument is that the TC is too hard physically on horses (which is probably true), then I don't see why you would keep the Kentucky Derby on the first Saturday in May. Certainly much of what you call the "TC grind" is really the grind getting to the Kentucky Derby. Most of the injuries to key horses crop up before May and not during the Triple Crown.
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I started with the precocious issue because I don't think three year olds at a mile and a quarter the first week of May is representative of much other than who is physically more developed. And considering your hardly see $5,000 claimers running every two weeks anymore, the physically taxing argument seems pretty obvious.
And if the "grind" is the three races they run in three months as three-year olds, well I guess so, but it's only a legitimate argument if these horses are getting hurt at a greater rate than the three year olds not running in stakes races. It seems more of an argument to not run horses who haven't hit a certain level of physical maturity. You have "three year olds" that are actually a couple of months over three, and a few barely at three.
I'm not insistent on the Derby being the first Saturday in May, but the blasphemy can only go so far.
I'd also suggest that far from spreading out the dates making it easier to win the TC, it would actually make it harder. I think the races would be even more competitive.
And while we're at it, 20 horses? Are you nuts?
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06-12-2017, 11:07 PM
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#29
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 9,047
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperPickle
I'm not getting your point. Are you saying they didn't help the sport? Or are you asking for direct impact on handle?
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I'm saying they did not help the sport. They did not turn fans into horseplayers. That's what we need. There are enough fans. The sport needs more horseplayers.
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06-12-2017, 11:08 PM
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#30
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahoss9698
I'm saying they did not help the sport. They did not turn fans into horseplayers. That's what we need. There are enough fans. The sport needs more horseplayers.
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Any ideas?
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