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03-22-2015, 08:51 PM
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: central fla.
Posts: 4,874
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another ACA stupidity coming to light
so offering my best help overtime...which of course is time and half...in past they've jumped on it...now they ARE DECLINING...
Why, you might ask....
Because their insurance premiums will go UP more than the benefits gained from the extra work....
an no...not going to force them to work...just sucks having to hire part time extra UNTRAINED for a demanding season job....
Brilliant...just brilliant the ACA is....   
__________________
got handed a lemon...make lemonade....add sugar or brown sugar or stevia or my personal favorite....miracle fruit....google it...thank me later...
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03-23-2015, 02:43 AM
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: North Riverside, Il.
Posts: 16,096
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sammy the sage
so offering my best help overtime...which of course is time and half...in past they've jumped on it...now they ARE DECLINING...
Why, you might ask....
Because their insurance premiums will go UP more than the benefits gained from the extra work....
an no...not going to force them to work...just sucks having to hire part time extra UNTRAINED for a demanding season job....
Brilliant...just brilliant the ACA is.... |
Why are you lying to us. Or if I am being kind, I would ask, why are your workers lying to you.
The Kaiser Foundation has a calculator which determines what your subsidy is for various levels of income.
I don't know what your employees are making, but the ratios should be the same. For our purposes let's say they are making $40,000 a year. That would be $19.25 an hour.
According to our calculator a person making $40,000 a year gets a subsidy of $545 a month and pays $161 a month for his premium. Now let's assume that you are asking them to work an additional twenty hours a week for ten weeks-you said it was seasonal. $19.25 time 1.5 equal $28.85 times 200 hours (twenty hours a week times ten weeks) equals $5,770.00 in additional pay. So your employees are now earning $45770.00 per year
The Kaiser calculator tells us that a person earning $45,770.00 a year gets a subsidy of $479 a month and pays $227 a month.
Simply put, all of this means that your workers will be paying an extra $792 per year in health care premiums while earning an extra $5770.00. Even after taking out for taxes and FICA etc. that is a deal I would take every time.
The above figures assume a family of four with two children
__________________
"When you come at the King, You'd best not miss." Omar Little
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03-23-2015, 03:35 AM
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
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Once again, our in-house expert knows more about what a poster is doing and thinking than that person does. What would we do without him to keep us all straight?
And if perchance someone actually involved with the situation has some facts wrong, it is because they are lying, not because they misunderstood the 20,000 pages of rules and regulation of ObamaCare.
__________________
A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
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03-23-2015, 06:41 AM
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,163
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Mostie,
Wouldn't your post have been better received if you had started it off by saying that due to the complexity of the ACA, you and your employees may be misinformed on this issue and here is why? Even on the rare occasion like this where you actually bring something to this forum, you screw it up by assaulting the OP. I bet you have no friends.
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03-23-2015, 07:52 AM
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: central fla.
Posts: 4,874
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Mostpost...
The Kaiser Foundation has a calculator....that SO-CALLED calculator is WAY-F-OFF here in Fla...
those figures WOULD BE different in EVERY state...subsidy's ARE different...premiums ARE different...
Employee's figure they're NOT getting TRUE time & half...they're getting taxed at a MIN. of 11% or more EXTRA just for ACA...
guess that PROVES the Supreme's original ruling...was a GIANT tax increase...
as far as me being a liar...rdgaswyt or wgara or gfy or dgaffwyt or wfyb or wefuys....
__________________
got handed a lemon...make lemonade....add sugar or brown sugar or stevia or my personal favorite....miracle fruit....google it...thank me later...
Last edited by sammy the sage; 03-23-2015 at 07:53 AM.
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03-23-2015, 09:03 AM
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,883
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sammy the sage
as far as me being a liar...rdgaswyt or wgara or gfy or dgaffwyt or wfyb or wefuys....
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What language would that be?
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
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03-23-2015, 12:48 PM
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: North Riverside, Il.
Posts: 16,096
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by clocker
Once again, our in-house expert knows more about what a poster is doing and thinking than that person does. What would we do without him to keep us all straight?
I may not know what a poster is thinking or doing. But I do know how to find the correct information and the correct information tells me that this particular poster is 100% wrong.
And if perchance someone actually involved with the situation has some facts wrong, it is because they are lying, not because they misunderstood the 20,000 pages of rules and regulation of ObamaCare.
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You don't have to understand 20,000 pages. You merely have to know their is a calculator to use. Anyone who looked into the situation would know that what sammy the sage was telling us was wrong.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by tucker 6
Mostie,
Wouldn't your post have been better received if you had started it off by saying that due to the complexity of the ACA, you and your employees may be misinformed on this issue and here is why? Even on the rare occasion like this where you actually bring something to this forum, you screw it up by assaulting the OP. I bet you have no friends.
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You would lose that bet. I have many friends, none of whom lie to me.
Yes, I could have phrased my answer as you suggest, but then I would not be saying what I believe. Which is that Sammy the Sage is more interested in putting down Obamacare than in the truth.
__________________
"When you come at the King, You'd best not miss." Omar Little
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03-23-2015, 01:01 PM
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: North Riverside, Il.
Posts: 16,096
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sammy the sage
Mostpost...
The Kaiser Foundation has a calculator....that SO-CALLED calculator is WAY-F-OFF here in Fla...
those figures WOULD BE different in EVERY state...subsidy's ARE different...premiums ARE different...
Employee's figure they're NOT getting TRUE time & half...they're getting taxed at a MIN. of 11% or more EXTRA just for ACA...
guess that PROVES the Supreme's original ruling...was a GIANT tax increase...
as far as me being a liar...rdgaswyt or wgara or gfy or dgaffwyt or wfyb or wefuys....
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I originally used the calculator for the US as a whole, but upon reading your complaint I went back and redid my calculations using Florida. Since you live in central Florida I used an Ocala zip code. Identical results. In my original post I acknowledge that income taxes and FICA and medicare will reduce take home pay. Even with that, the extra money earned far outstrips any increase in premiums.
The Supremes said that the penalty for not having insurance is a tax. Your employees have insurance, therefore they will not be paying that penalty, or tax if you prefer. There are taxes and penalties which fund Obamacare. Income tax is not one of them.
As for your last comment. "Klaatu barada Niktu."
__________________
"When you come at the King, You'd best not miss." Omar Little
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03-23-2015, 01:28 PM
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: North Riverside, Il.
Posts: 16,096
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Even if the income of Sammy the Sage's employees doubled from $40,000 to $80,000 a year; the out of pocket cost of their premiums would only increase by $5,716 a year (or 14% of the salary increase).
__________________
"When you come at the King, You'd best not miss." Omar Little
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03-23-2015, 01:32 PM
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by boxcar
What language would that be?
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Fookyounese.
__________________
A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
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03-23-2015, 01:34 PM
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mostpost
Yes, I could have phrased my answer as you suggest, but then I would not be saying what I believe. Which is that Sammy the Sage is more interested in putting down Obamacare than in the truth.
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Ah, more mind-reading.
How does he do it folks? 
__________________
A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
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03-23-2015, 02:32 PM
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#12
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: near Philadelphia
Posts: 4,560
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mostpost
Why are you lying to us. Or if I am being kind, I would ask, why are your workers lying to you.
The Kaiser Foundation has a calculator which determines what your subsidy is for various levels of income.
I don't know what your employees are making, but the ratios should be the same. For our purposes let's say they are making $40,000 a year. That would be $19.25 an hour.
According to our calculator a person making $40,000 a year gets a subsidy of $545 a month and pays $161 a month for his premium. Now let's assume that you are asking them to work an additional twenty hours a week for ten weeks-you said it was seasonal. $19.25 time 1.5 equal $28.85 times 200 hours (twenty hours a week times ten weeks) equals $5,770.00 in additional pay. So your employees are now earning $45770.00 per year
The Kaiser calculator tells us that a person earning $45,770.00 a year gets a subsidy of $479 a month and pays $227 a month.
Simply put, all of this means that your workers will be paying an extra $792 per year in health care premiums while earning an extra $5770.00. Even after taking out for taxes and FICA etc. that is a deal I would take every time.
The above figures assume a family of four with two children
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Clocker
Once again, our in-house expert knows more about what a poster is doing and thinking than that person does. What would we do without him to keep us all straight?
And if perchance someone actually involved with the situation has some facts wrong, it is because they are lying, not because they misunderstood the 20,000 pages of rules and regulation of ObamaCare.
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Thanks again, Clocker, for trying to explain away our good friend, mostpost.
But, allow me to take a whack at it:
An educated person knows quite well that a tomato is a fruit,
but a smart person knows that you don't put tomatoes in fruit salad.
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03-23-2015, 02:38 PM
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 20,604
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sammy the sage
Employee's figure they're NOT getting TRUE time & half...they're getting taxed at a MIN. of 11% or more EXTRA just for ACA...
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This could be a relevant point.
Many people and most businesses do not think in terms of whether they will make money or not. They think in terms of a cost/benefit analysis or return on investment.
So some people might say to themselves, "I am willing to work extra hours for X amount of dollars, but after the increased premium/extra taxes I no longer think it's a good tradeoff to give up time for family, friends, hobbies or whatever for this lower amount".
__________________
"Unlearning is the highest form of learning"
Last edited by classhandicapper; 03-23-2015 at 02:39 PM.
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03-23-2015, 05:43 PM
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: MILWAUKEE
Posts: 5,285
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every employee knows how his paycheck works. If they didn't they would need a union to protect them for a modest fee.
__________________
Never tell your problems to anyone because 20% flat don't care and 80% are glad they are yours.
No Balls.......No baby!
Have you ever noticed that those who do not have a pot to piss in nor a window to throw it out of always seem to know how to handle the money of those who do.
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03-23-2015, 05:56 PM
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#15
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 16,908
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Quote:
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According to our calculator a person making $40,000 a year gets a subsidy of $545 a month and pays $161 a month for his premium.
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That would not be accurate here in NV. When I looked at the premium choices last November, the base was more than twice that.
A $50k per year earner would be paying around $350 for base coverage, and almost $700 for the best coverage.
(Note: I looked at $50k only.)
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